Sam Munoz 0:00
All of this is maybe a journey, not necessarily a destination, right? You’re always going to be growing in these areas. We have been selling websites here at SMC for five years. And it’s still scary to send out a price. But the difference between who I was five years ago, charging $1,000 For something that I now charge $12,000 For is understanding the value of that work and feeling confident and just practicing the process of saying, This is how much it’s worth. The price is the price. You know, it does take practice, I think, right? Like we don’t just wake up one day, start a business and then just feel confident selling something for $10,000. Like the people that say that you can just do that are lying. Welcome to Making website magic where we empower women to step boldly into their web design, businesses follow their intuition and claim the success they’re worthy of. I’m Sam Munoz.

Karyn Paige 1:00
And I’m Karen Page, where the Tech Wizards behind Sam Linnaeus consulting and the making website Magic School of Business. Were two women here to talk about what it actually takes to run a web design business that’s aligned with your vision.

Sam Munoz 1:13
Spoiler alert, it probably isn’t what you think it is ready to hear about everything from refining your business vision, networking with intention and creating a magical client experience.

Karyn Paige 1:23
Let’s do it.

Sam Munoz 1:30
Well, hello there, Karen.

Karyn Paige 1:32
Hey, Sam, how’s it going?

Sam Munoz 1:35
It is going superduper? Well, we are thinking today about who do we need to become to charge four figures for a website. And I like this title that we came up with. I also like that idea of like, Who do we need to become. And also I’m getting like super meta already, right off the bat. I’ve been learning so much in therapy. And just like all these different things that I’ve been reading and digesting about, like, we might actually already kind of be there. And it’s just like unlocking our inner gem and who we are on the inside. And so it’s like, who you’re becoming is really who you actually are in your essence. And I just love that idea that we’re like, fully formed somewhere within us. And it’s just like, peeling back all of the excess.

Karyn Paige 2:19
I am so here for that. Yes to all of that. Okay, so this title of like, so who do you need to become to charge four figures for a website like that? So who do you need to become? It’s actually one of my favorite questions to ask, right? Because a lot of times we talk about things that we want, or you know, the goals that we might have, right? And I’m like, Okay, that’s great. So who do you need to be coming to get there?

Sam Munoz 2:43
Right? We just talked about this in our first episode of this season, episode 32, about goals. And I love that, Karen, because it’s like, we maybe set intentional goals. We maybe had all these ideas, but now it’s like, okay, well, who do you need to become to unlock the ability to get there?

Karyn Paige 2:59
Mm hmm. And yeah, spoiler alert, you might already be that person, right? Like

Sam Munoz 3:04
you. And I do want to give a little bit of like justification explanation about the title of this episode. intentionally provocative, right? Is what we’re going for with this title. And just giving the caveat that like four figures is a super broad spectrum. It can be, you know, $1,000, it can be all the way up to like $9,999.99. Like, it can be that whole range.

Karyn Paige 3:30
It could be one penny less than 10,000. However,

Sam Munoz 3:34
yes. Like, I think they do that. In the office. He’s like, you know, $1,100, and one penny.

Karyn Paige 3:43
So the price is right, if you’ve ever seen that show,

Sam Munoz 3:47
big fan, I watched that so much as a kid anyway, this whole concept, though, is really about charging more, if you’re interested in charging more for your work, this episode is for you. So you might want certain things right, you might have certain goals, things like financial security and consistency. You might have spent some time over the past couple of weeks, as we’re in this new year, thinking about your financial goals, thinking about your financial future, being like, Hmm, I think I want to charge more for my work. Maybe you want to work with clients that actually respect you, and that you enjoy working with maybe you’re desiring to build a business that actually fits into your life and the dreams that you have. And these are things that you want, right? So I love that you said that, Karen, it’s like we can want all these things, but who do we need to become to get there? And I want to say this, a misconception in terms of this idea of charging more for your work is just double it. And the number of times I’ve heard that kind of makes me sick. Just double it.

Karyn Paige 4:45
Ah, like I don’t want to be shady to anybody who might give that type of advice, but like real talk, that’s kind of like, I don’t want to use word lazy or harmful. I just throw it out there. I don’t want to use that word.

Sam Munoz 4:58
You wouldn’t say per se but If someone were to say those things,

Karyn Paige 5:02
um, just you know, word salad in, in my mind, I’m trying to find the right word. But yeah, it’s like, it’s too easy drill sergeant, like, it’s too easy to just say just double it. Because that’s, that’s not taking a lot of other factors into consideration.

Sam Munoz 5:16
It’s extremely dismissive to just say, just double it. Because the truth is that even if you did double it, right, even if you were charging $1,000, and now you’re charging $2,000, for your work, just doubling, it doesn’t solve the problem of charging more and actually being successful in selling your services at that higher rate, there is a huge mindset shift, and you need to become a different person from a mindset, quality perspective, to charge more money. That is a fact. And it’s also something that I would love to talk about today.

Karyn Paige 5:52
Yeah, okay. I just have like a mindset, blah moment, as you said, that it makes me think of, okay, if we’re going down this thought experiment of just double your rates, the implication is that you have to have a mindset shift, well, then that’s like doubling your mindset, right? That’s like, quantum leaping. And that right there is going to be uncomfortable and shocking to the system, and frightening and harmful and maybe not the best approach. So,

Sam Munoz 6:19
right, because you might be thrust into a situation where you’re like, I’m now charging $3,000. But you didn’t realize that. So mindset shifts had to happen, and some other things had to happen internally to get you there. And then you might find yourself in a place of being unsafe, honestly, offering that price point, because maybe you can’t deliver at that price point. Maybe someone has different expectations. So you know, we’re going to get into the qualities of someone who charges four figures for a website, but just doubling it and just like throwing yourself into that situation isn’t incredibly safe.

Karyn Paige 6:52
So true. Okay, let’s spend some time talking about the qualities of someone who does charge four figures for a website.

Sam Munoz 7:00
Right. And I think that I want to give this like caveat, because I think when we you know, imagine someone who sells websites for four figures, imagine someone who sells a website for $8,000. Like, what are some things that you think of? And I think that there’s, you know, the caricature that comes into mind? Is this like, extroverted, like alpha person who has like, jumped on a sales call? And just like slays all day, right? And do you know what I mean? Like, is someone who just like exudes confidence and is just like, I don’t know like that. That’s what comes to mind for me. What about for you, Karen,

Karyn Paige 7:34
somebody who wears a hoodie has a beard, but also wears flip flops while wearing said hoodie? Who totally like has degrees in computer science or whatever, and drinks a lot of like Monster, or Red Bull while staying awake for hours, just like hard coding everything. But it’s also kind of arrogant and aloof about it. Like yeah, don’t make me do my tech bro voice, please. So

Sam Munoz 7:59
Aaron doesn’t have any like experiences in this area? No, no life experience.

Karyn Paige 8:03
Oh, no, no, like, yeah, yeah, this is my imagination, or anywhere else right now.

Sam Munoz 8:09
So this is the thing that you don’t have to be that person. Like, none of those caricatures have to be you. In fact, what we’re talking about really is more in the mind, right? And some qualities and things that you might already be now. Maybe we have to unlock them. Maybe we need to grow in those areas. Maybe it’s a new mindset shift. But it’s not about being an extrovert. It’s not about being pushy. It’s not about having a beard. It’s about these qualities. So let’s let’s dive in.

Karyn Paige 8:45
Yeah, let’s dive in. Okay. First and foremost, somebody who is charging four figures for a website is confident about the value of their work, got to

Sam Munoz 8:57
know the worth of the work, not the worth of you as a person, but the worth of the work. Knowing that it’s not just building a website, that you’re building a website, you’re creating a transformation for your client, you are helping them go through their copy and decide the best pieces to represent themselves. You are actualizing their vision, you are creating something from nothing. This is a valuable, valuable work. We’ve talked about this a ton on this podcast, specifically, the episode about under charging for your work is coming to mind for me, and we’ll link that in the show notes. What you do is valuable and it is a high value skill set. And that person knows that right? The four figure website seller knows that their work is valuable. They believe it. They believe it themselves. That’s huge, right?

Karyn Paige 9:48
Yeah, there’s this piece to it, where it’s like we associate building websites with the code and the tech piece was sometimes we forget that there’s this whole other Strategy and Consultation piece. that informs the value of the work. Yes, anybody can drag and drop and build a website. But if you know that there’s this particular strategy, that there’s like some user experience best practices in that design, that you understand the goals, the end goal calls to action, putting buttons in strategic places like that TOEFL loan adds value to the work that you do. And so somebody who’s very confident in that, that’s like, yeah, that’s why you want to pay me four figures, instead of trying to do it on your own or outsource it to like a fiber competence.

Sam Munoz 10:38
We say that all the time to the mentees in our mentorship program, like that’s a value add, that’s a value add. That’s another reason why your services this much money, I love when we say that we can help call it out. Because sometimes you don’t even see it yourself. Right? You don’t see that extra little thing you’re doing for them is a value add and is why you can feel confident charging more. And I want to say like I really, really think it’s important that as we’re having this conversation, just knowing that all of this is maybe a journey, not necessarily a destination, right? You’re always going to be growing in these areas. We have been selling websites here at SMC for five years. And it’s still scary to send out a price. But the difference between who I was five years ago, charging $1,000 For something that I now charge $12,000 For is understanding the value of that work and feeling confident and just practicing the process of saying this is how much it’s worth. The price is the price. You know, it does take practice, I think, right? Like we don’t just wake up one day, start a business and then just feel confident selling something for $10,000 like the people that say that you can just do that are lying. Gosh, yeah.

Karyn Paige 11:57
The word gaslighting comes to mind. Yeah, big time. Okay, moving on, though, like do not have me open up a tic tock account and just start Randy’s Am I will. Okay, professional goals. Here’s another quality of somebody who is out here charging four figures for a website for the services is really that person is consistent, and is committed. And that can look like a lot of things, right? When it’s all about consistency. It’s about showing up, showing up and coming back. And trying again,

Sam Munoz 12:32
right showing up imperfectly. No one is asking you to be perfect that quality is not on the list, right? Being perfect is not on the list, showing up in your imperfection showing up and trying I love that you said that trying again, doing it until it’s done doing it until you’re satisfied. If it doesn’t work, you try again, right? Getting it done. getting the work done like that alone is a value add as well, right? Like, I just love the pre client journey so much. If you haven’t listened to the episode on the prefilling journey, go listen to that, but it my wheels are turning right, because it’s like you being the type of person that like doesn’t stop until your client is satisfied with what you’ve created for them is a value add, boom.

Karyn Paige 13:12
It reminds me of like the conversations that we have with the mentees in the very first class that we have you know, about who you are, what makes you you. And so often the responses to that is, you know, I’m the person who if I don’t know what it is, I will figure it out. Like I just strive to find the solutions like that commitment to I don’t know all the things and I’m okay with that. But I know I can figure it out. I’m committed to trying. Right? Like that piece right there. I’m like, okay, hold on to that quality, because you’re gonna need it, you’re gonna use it every day.

Sam Munoz 13:49
Yes, you are. Right. That’s right. That’s another thing too, is just like being consistent with that desire to show up and do the work and do what’s required. And that doesn’t mean not taking breaks, that doesn’t mean not giving yourself what you need. It just means committing and staying consistent to that commitment and seeing it through following through.

Karyn Paige 14:09
Oh, yeah, that’s the beauty of consistency is it really can look like a lot of different things, right? Like my mom, she would told me this when I first started my business and you know, get really discouraged because I was going through this exact process that we’re talking about on my own. And she’d be like, you know, just do something every day. Just Just a little something. And I was like, I can do that. Right? Yes. So you get to decide what that consistency looks like. But it’s the commitment. It’s the the declaration that you’re going to show up. Especially when maybe something didn’t turn out the way you wanted it to turn out you’re like okay, well I’m gonna just pick myself up dust myself off and try again just like Alia, you know. That’s right. Committing to not knowing and being okay. And just going forward anyway.

Sam Munoz 14:57
Absolutely. And that’s the other part of it. Two is that the person who charges and is successful charging four figures for a website, they take action and they’re decisive, and they make a choice. And they stay the course. And they, you know, stay committed and stay consistent. And I think that that’s so important taking action, right? Even if it’s the tiniest, tiniest little step, the tiniest step is so valuable, you have to take that first step for the rest of them to come, that connects to so many aspects of this business, as well as running this type of business, right, because it’s like, let’s say you have this humongous project to do. And just taking like five minutes like that five minutes that you spend on that project is still five minutes towards the end result. So same thing with like being consistent. So that person who charges that much, is willing to be consistent, decisive and take action on what they want.

Karyn Paige 15:47
Yeah. And kind of piggybacking on top of that idea about consistently, taking committed action. Another quality that this person has, is that they’re willing to take the lead in their business, and their projects initiating, like inside the project. So what that’s making me think of right is like, you are willing to invite somebody to get on a call, you’re willing to send your discovery calling, you’re willing to take the lead on bringing new business into your company, by sending out announcement, emails to your contact list that you’re now booking, you know, for quarter three, you’re willing to take the lead on your project, and guide your clients through decision making processes through the phases of your process, your

Sam Munoz 16:33
process, your process,

Karyn Paige 16:36
right, you’re the lead, you’re not being led.

Sam Munoz 16:39
That’s right, you don’t have the mentality of like an employee of your clients, you are their peer, you are in the driver’s seat, you are the expert, and you are taking the lead on the project. Because this is your domain, you are the web designer or developer, right? This is your project. So someone that holds on to that leadership position, and is willing to take the lead is someone who feels confident, right, there are all of these qualities connect, because that is the same type of person who is confident saying, Hey, this is the price, because this is my process. This is my availability.

Karyn Paige 17:16
And there’s this other piece to have, you know, really being confident again, like it really does go hand in hand, right? Like being confident about charging four figures, increasing your prices, maybe from like a 2000, to a little bit more or 4000 to a little bit more, whatever that stretch target goal is for you, right, is about understanding your clients and what they actually need. This part is so huge, right? Because it’s like, it comes from a place of not operating on assumptions. It comes from a place of like actually knowing and like confirming. And so when you understand your clients and what they need, you can offer them what they need, you can give them the results that they’re looking for, and probably give them secondary and tertiary results that they didn’t even know was coming with it. But that again goes into that the value that you deliver in your projects. And so if you’re listening to this, and you’re like, Well, I don’t really know who my ideal client is, I don’t really know what they need, or I think I know what they need. But if I’m being honest, I’m actually assuming that I know, then that is going to inform your pricing and also inform the experience that your client has while working with you

Sam Munoz 18:29
and inform your ability to actually make the sale because knowing what they need and knowing what motivates them to say yes, right. Like knowing why your ideal client needs a website helps you convey the value to them so that you can frame it in a very obvious way. Perfect example, you sell coffee, right? So you need a website where people can go and see your location. And that is what this website will do for you so that you can sell more coffee, understanding your clients needs. Understanding why they need a website, understanding the ROI of your work, helps you sell it,

Karyn Paige 19:07
and it helps them buy it. That’s right. Yes, I want to take a quick tangent real quick. That just makes me think of like some movie from the 80s or something where like, a girl goes into a department store. She’s looking for a prom dress and she doesn’t know what she’s doing. And then there’s like the trusted sales associate who’s like, I know exactly what you need and like pulls the perfect dress off of the rack and then the girl puts it on as she feels like a princess like I don’t know where that I don’t know why I have this idea in my head. But that idea of like being able to see the client for who they are and what they need in almost like intrinsically, and then said this is for you. Don’t even worry about it.

Sam Munoz 19:47
Yes, that is that higher level experience. That is the thing that people pay for right that people pay a higher ticket for because it’s like, oh, you knew what I needed and I didn’t even know what I needed. This kind of makes me think about past episodes we’ve had about that idea of like, stop teaching people how to DIY their own website. And instead, show them why they need to hire you as the expert that’s understanding their needs and saying like, you’ve been DIY doing it for so long, but you need someone who has like that expert level to take you up and not Yeah. And that’s understanding their needs. I love that example of like that. This is the dress you I love that that’s perfect. Another quality of someone who charges four figures for a website, is that they have trust. And this is like a whole worm and no, this is a whole black hole on its own rabbit hole, rabbit hole, black. Same thing. I mean, yeah, I was thinking like a wormhole. That’s where I was going with that. It’s some sort of physics thing. science, astronomy. It’s all good. Albert Einstein would be thoroughly impressed with me,

Karyn Paige 20:55
he’s probably taking a 15 minute nap, nobody cares.

Sam Munoz 20:59
They have trust, trust in a lot of different areas. Right? I think one big thing is trust in the abundance that is possible, this person wakes up knowing that they are good at what they do, right? That’s that confidence piece, knowing that they understand their ideal client and knowing that the work will come because they are consistent because they’re positioning themselves in the right way. Because they’re talking to the right people, because they’re taking actions in the appropriate areas. So it’s easier to trust that the abundance will come when you know, your steps, your action steps, and then you simply take action with confidence. That person has trust that it’s coming, which makes it easier for them to say no to opportunities that aren’t in alignment that aren’t a four figure website package, right? When someone comes in and is like, Oh, can you do it for like $900. Instead, they’re like, Nope, sorry, this is the price, the price is the price. And I know more things are coming.

Karyn Paige 21:53
And in that right like in trusting that the abundance is out there, trusting in themselves that if they take action, they you can make it happen like it will come that does require an awareness that that type of growth is a little bit slower. It’s not instantaneous. It’s not the overnight success that we’ve talked about in other episodes, right. So it’s trusting in the process that if you do show up, if you do take some kind of action every day, if you do own your space and have an understanding of the value that you offer, if you just keep putting one foot in front of the other, even if it’s like the turtle’s pace, and not the hair space, like you will get to that place, you have to trust that you will get to the place where you want to be. And that can be very uncomfortable, that can be very uncomfortable. Because you’re like I want it now I want to see the clients. Now I want to do the thing now. And I’m like, again, if you have that, if they did show up, would you trust yourself enough to like, show up and do the things? Or would it be a very uncomfortable quantum leap for you?

Sam Munoz 22:57
And that was that idea from before of like becoming that person? Instead of just thrusting yourself into that environment when you’re not necessarily ready, like you haven’t evolved quite yet. And the slow growth idea connects in my mind to the idea of solid business foundations, because you said something about like, if like 10 people came to you right now, like, would you even be able to do anything with them anyway, right? Like, would you be able to support those people? And yeah, just trust trusting that because it’s slow. What is the thing that you say, Karen, slow is something

Karyn Paige 23:32
slow, smooth and smooth is fast?

Sam Munoz 23:35
Right? I just think like that’s the mindset of someone who charges four figures is like understanding that slow is not a bad thing. Slow is actually a really amazing good thing with a fire that is sustained instead of burning and flaming out. I think that the last thing that someone who charges four figures, and we’ve touched on this before, is that they have a pursuit of continuous improvement, right, they are willing to look at themselves and say, I need to grow in this area. Just what I was talking about before to about like, you might already kind of be this person. But we can all continuously grow. This isn’t a destination. It’s a journey. We’re all growing in all of these areas, myself and Karen included, right, we’re still growing in our confidence, we’re still growing in our consistency and commitment. Like these are things that we will continue to grow in and on and the person that is willing to do those things and stay the course and commit to personal and professional development is the person that is going to charge more and be more successful in doing that.

Karyn Paige 24:36
And a part of getting to that place like the continuous improvement. There’s part of it that comes from inside, like we have an awareness of how we want to grow and improve. And then there’s a part of it that comes from being informed from external sources like our clients, right and that so that looks like feedback. And so there has to be a willingness to ask questions or seek the feedback and hear the feedback and receive it in order to implement it in a way that you can increase your prices, right? Because you may find that if you’re willing to receive feedback from your clients, if you’re willing to ask them, like, what worked for you, what was the best part of working with me something like that, you might learn that when you’re going in the right direction, you’re doing the thing, it’s okay, that’s a green light to be like, Okay, I’m gonna want to add $250 to this now, you know, like, I’ve been doing it all along, this is great. Or you might find that they say something where it’s like this, actually, if this had happened, that would have been awesome. And you’re like, Okay, I can do that. And in doing that, I can raise my prices. $200. That’s great. When, right? But it’s like, you won’t even get that information to help you inform your decisions. If you’re not asking for the feedback, or Okay, hearing it when you do get it.

Sam Munoz 25:59
Right, which really makes me think of our episode about the value of vulnerability for web designers. If that whole concept of receiving feedback or asking for it is making you feel super uncomfortable, and weird and tingly, and whatever bodily sensation is happening, that feels negative, definitely go listen to that episode, because it is valuable to receive feedback, it is valuable to be vulnerable. And these are the kinds of things that allow us to elevate into a space where we can feel safe and confident charging more for our work.

Karyn Paige 26:34
So it’s important to point out that like, throughout this whole conversation, I think what we really want the takeaway to be for you, hopefully, is that this really is like a journey. This is not a destination, this is one of those moments where you use that term. Right? So like, maybe you’re not there yet. You’ve heard what we’ve had to say. And you’re like, Ah, I’m not hitting a lot of those targets. Seven, Karen, that’s okay. That’s okay. areas for growth. Yeah, areas for growth. Right. It’s not that not that you’re not good enough. This is an area for growth, right to make you elevate

Sam Munoz 27:12
to more expensive way to think about it, right is like this is an area to improve versus like, this is somewhere that I suck. Thinking about, like just reframing that idea of, I just get to grow in this area, instead of I fail, and I’m not good enough in this area.

Karyn Paige 27:29
Totally. Yeah. Or maybe you are there. Maybe you are there. And you’re like after hearing Sam and Kara talk, I do have a lot of those pieces, right, but it still doesn’t really like feel safe for you to embody it. So if that resonates for you where you’re like, I know, I know, I know. I can charge more. But I don’t really feel safe to embody it to like to just take that leap. This is really an invitation for you to sit with that whatever that number is. Because I know you know what that what you want that number to be, sit with that number until it feel safe. I’ve had this conversation in the mentorship, like, what number does feel safe, that’s more than what you’re currently charging, right? A number where you can say it with your chest, like let’s say for example, you want to move from from 2000 to 3000. But 3000 doesn’t really feel safe. What does feel safe? That’s in between two and three? Can you say that number with your chest? Okay, great. Let’s sit with that number. Let’s get into affirmation mode and say in the mirror, say it to your biz, Bessie, write it down on your services page, like update your proposal, like embody that number that does feel good and does feel safe. And that is your first step to that incremental cost. So it doesn’t feel like the quantumly

Sam Munoz 28:56
Yes, and that it’s also an invitation like what you just said is also an invitation for like healing work as well within yourself. Because the reason you might not feel safe to charge that amount very well might be something happening internally, right. So another thing to think about is like why maybe just brainstorming like why does this feel unsafe? Why do I feel like I can’t charge that much? Why do I feel nervous about that? Because I think like that deeper understanding of of why like the root and how it makes you feel physically and other things that come up when you think of charging that much maybe money things that happened in your past maybe, you know, the way that you were raised as a child like they’re everything is connected, right? We cannot deny that it’s all connected. This is why we talked in a previous episode about professional and personal growth because they are inherently connected. And so when you feel comfortable doing that thought work because it might not be right this second, right because this might be A lot of healing and past trauma and things that come up for you. But when you feel comfortable and safe to do that and sit with that, we definitely invite you to do that. Because until we can get there in our minds, and until we can feel safe to charge that it’s hard to embody those other qualities externally, even if you know you have them, it’s hard to fully embody them.

Karyn Paige 30:21
And if you’re not fully embodying it, you don’t feel safe, but maybe you try it anyway, there’s a high chance that you will end up talking yourself out of it, when it comes time for you to say that to the client. And then that’s a whole other piece, right? Like, hmm, maybe. Okay, we’ll do 900. No, like, there’s some healing, for sure in that. And then the other thing is like, it is totally possible that you are there. You’re right there, girl, but like you don’t see it for yourself, because you’re so close, you’re so close to yourself. It’s like you didn’t know, you didn’t know it was right there. And that is sometimes so obvious for the people around you to see it. Right. Do you have a support community around you, that you trust where you can just straight up ask them? Do you think I can charge more for my work?

Sam Munoz 31:18
You know, yeah, sometimes someone telling you like, you can definitely charge $2,000 For this gives you the permission, right? Like we’d not that you need it, but gives you that, like, extra level of confidence and assurance that like man of Karen told me that this is worth $2,000. And maybe like, I’m like, 75% of the way to believing that. I can get there though, with that extra boost of confidence that someone who I trust and believe in and I value, their expertise is telling me that I can do this. It’s like having I mean, I don’t want to say it. But it’s like having a mentor, telling you, you got this right like your coach, you’re getting up to bat you’re like I’ve hit this ball in practice. But I don’t know if I can do it. And then your coach just giving you a quick pat on the back saying like, you got this, you’re like, Okay, I can do this, I really can do this.

Karyn Paige 32:15
It’s that peace of like, having somebody in your corner who knows what your goal is, who knows what your vision is for yourself, and can hold that vision for you, even when you have trouble holding it for yourself. I know I’ve experienced that personally, where it’s just like, had to ask somebody hey, do you think that this quality that I have this quality of myself and they were like yeah, totally and I was like That is so weird, because I don’t really see myself as that person. But that’s like we said at the beginning of the episode, like you might already be there, you just need somebody to remind you that you’ve had it all along just like Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz. She added all along she didn’t need those ruby slippers i was just fashion she had it all along.

Sam Munoz 32:58
I love that. I hope that after listening to this episode, you feel motivated and excited about this idea that like that’s what I got to do to charge four figures I got skills so I just have to be a little bit more confident and understand the value of my work and trust and commit to improving and all of these things and I can do that like this is available to me I hope that that you walk away feeling like that is available to me no matter which bucket you fall in that we talked about at the end there you know being there yet being not there yet feeling safe. Like I hope that you with hearing all of this. It’s like oh, I can do that. I can do that. You

Karyn Paige 33:37
can do it. You can and and nowhere did we say wear a hoodie and flip flops and be like Master PhD level of computer science code and design wild things and like No 50 different strategic industry tactics. We didn’t say any of that. We just said trust believe show up, try. Take an action, make a decision. And don’t assume I think we could do that. Definitely