SPEAKERS
Karyn Paige, Sam Munoz

Sam Munoz 00:00
It is something that the more you do it and the more you move through those fears and allow them to come up and not try to like stifle them, but just say I’m gonna do it anyway. Because I know that this is good for my business like that practice, the fear has less power over you, right? You’re like, Okay, I’m not going to let that stop me from taking this next move in my business that I know is going to work like I am 100% bought into the idea that getting on Discovery calls is going to work for me. So I’m going to hold space for these fears. But I’m also going to allow myself to fully move through them so that I can get on this call and rocket. Welcome to making website magic where we empower women to step boldly into their web design, businesses follow their intuition and claim the success they’re worthy of. I’m Sam Munoz.

Karyn Paige 00:52
And I’m karyn page, where the tech wizards behind Sam Munoz consulting on the making website Magic School of Business. We’re two women here to talk about what it actually takes to run a web design business that’s aligned with your vision.

Sam Munoz 01:05
Spoiler alert, it probably isn’t what you think it is ready to hear about everything from refining your business vision, networking with intention and creating a magical client experience.

01:15
Let’s do it.

Sam Munoz 01:21
Hey, karyn, I, I’m okay. So excited is not necessarily the word that I’m looking for. I’m intrigued by our topic for today. I’m really intrigued to get into this.

01:35
Okay, so

Karyn Paige 01:36
I fully agree like this is going to be an episode about vulnerability. And like being in the the tree of trust as web designers, right. And it’s really like, it’s time to talk about, like things that maybe aren’t being said, in terms of like how we approach sales and marketing and that one on one connection that we need as web designers in order to get those clients on our calendar. Right. So the topic of this episode is basically the fear of discovery calls. And like unpacking that. Would you say that? That’s, in a nutshell, the topic today?

Sam Munoz 02:19
Absolutely. And that’s why it’s not necessarily an exciting topic. But it is a needed and worthwhile discussion. Because it’s interesting like this, there’s a lot coming up for me talking about this, because I think that a lot of advice that we hear from people is very positive and very do this, and you will get these results. But there’s not a lot of conversations about like, okay, but I’m gonna try that. But like things are coming up for me when I try this. And there’s a lot of mindset stuff that I’m experiencing when I’m trying this system or this framework. And, you know, I’m fearful. So I think it’s an interesting and worthwhile discussion that we’re having today. Yeah,

Karyn Paige 03:03
so in Episode Four, we talk about like discovery calls, and really like the magic of them and the power of them. And you shared some stories about like some amazing discovery call experiences that you’ve had that led to client bookings. And I brought up the fact that like, discovery calls can be scary. Like, let’s just address the pink elephant in the room, especially if you’re an introvert, which a lot of us web designers are naturally like, you know, more like solo individuals, right? So in this episode, I really want to dig into and unpack the idea of like being afraid to get on those calls. And if you are somebody who’s like, oh, you’re telling me I got to do discovery calls, I would really rather do something more like an email, nurture sequence or put out a Facebook ad like, I’m very comfortable, and I feel safe in that space. Like, this episode is for you, because I can relate to that 100% because I was that person, right? In Episode Four, I talked about how, in spite of being an introvert, like I really enjoy being on calls, because it was a break of the monotony of just being alone and doing like solo work. And I really was able to discover in myself that talking to people one on one actually really energizes me and that’s where I’m great. You know, get me in front of a networking event where there’s 500 people I’m lost. I’m in I’m out to see, but one on one, I’m good. But it was something that I had to hit a few trees on this on the downhill slalom of life in business before I got to that point, right. I’m just gonna hop into this story and paint this picture up picture of like, my first discovery call, and how much of a disaster it was.

Sam Munoz 04:53
I’m so curious. It

Karyn Paige 04:55
was such a learning moment. Okay. It was kind of one of those things where like everything that could go wrong. did go wrong, like from the start, like the link to the discovery call, like, let’s just start.

05:06
It was wrong. So

Karyn Paige 05:07
what ended up happening is I was booking through zoom, I was doing like the free plan or whatever, where it doesn’t automatically, like send a calendar invite or was something was was wrong. And so I was on the call, I was waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting. And the person was hitting me up on Instagram, like, Hey, I’m on the call, where are you? The 30 minutes that we were supposed to be together had already lapsed. So I said, Oh, I’m so sorry. Maybe I sent you the wrong link, whatever. So I sent her another link, this same thing happens. We’re waiting. We’re waiting. I’m in a call. Where are you? I’m in the call, you’re not? Turns out when I was sending her the information through Gmail, she was going into a Google Hangout. And I was in zoom. And it never occurred to me that there was even a possibility that she was just using a different video chat platform. So that already set it off into this weird dynamic of karyn doesn’t know what she’s doing. And now I’m like, scrambling which

Sam Munoz 06:11
person right?

Karyn Paige 06:12
Yeah, it’s like this is embarrassing. So then we’re on the call. And it turns into this whole, like less of a What do you need? What are you looking for, here’s how I can help you and more of like a fun, like brunch, Kiki with this person that I think is really cool. I’m really interested in what she’s doing. She’s got a lot of ideas. I’ve got a lot of ideas, all of a sudden, I’m like coaching her on how you know, she can expand her business, and do all these things and have all these offerings. And she’s like a multi passionate person. And so she’s like, Hey, can you do this? And I’ve got a shop and I’ve got this other project and all of these things. And I’m like, yeah, let’s like, it just got so out of scope. Because I was so excited to talk to somebody and I was so excited about the work that she was doing, that I had trouble like reining it in to be like,

07:05
okay,

Karyn Paige 07:06
let’s say on track, you need a website, can I help you cannot not help you, etc, etc. Then it was like I even can’t like imagine what I was looking like on that zoom call, like I was flustered. I was hot. All this advice that I’d gotten was like, you should sit in front of a window and get natural light. And I was like, Why don’t have natural light in the room that I’m in right now. So I’ll take a desk lamp and like, shine it in my face. But the light was really hot. Like it’s a really hot lamp. So I’m like, right. I’m like, I’m like bright orange. I’d also put on way too much makeup because I thought that I needed to like look really good on camera. So I look like I have a fever like I’m in. I’m sweating profusely because I’m so excited to like flex these, like, I’ve got ideas on how you can market your business instead of just being like, Hey, you need a website. I can build one for you. And just spiraled. And then I think at the very end, I think I had said something like, so do you

08:07
want to work together?

Karyn Paige 08:11
Her expectations of what that would look like was so different. I even think I ended up giving her bad advice on like, what she needed to do with her website. Like I kind of overcomplicated the situation because I was so influenced by all these things that she wanted to do. And so needless to say, I didn’t book that gig. I didn’t get that client.

08:32
And not

Karyn Paige 08:33
quite. It didn’t pan out. But what ended up happening is it reinforced for me that I’m not good at Discovery calls. And so I didn’t come out of that thinking, Oh, man, what can I do to like get better at this? Like, where did I go wrong? Like I got so in my head about it that I was just like, you know what, this doesn’t feel safe, this doesn’t feel good. I’m going to go back to the advice that I’m getting from like the one to many passive income business models. And I’m going to go back to try to create a freebie I’m going to try to perfect my sales funnel, I’m going to just post more on Instagram and like, try to convince people through my Instagram posts of like, this is why you need a website and like all this kind of stuff. And so it set me back for quite some time. And there’s so many things that I learned from that, like looking back on that where it’s like, oh, it’s okay. karyn, like that was just one bad experience. But it doesn’t define you. And it doesn’t mean that discovery calls are bad, right? Or that there’s something that you shouldn’t be doing. Right.

09:37
So

Sam Munoz 09:38
was that the last discovery call? You did?

09:40
No.

Karyn Paige 09:43
Of course not. But it wasn’t the last one that I did. But I feel like there was so much pressure

09:50
on it

Karyn Paige 09:50
for me to perform well. And for me to learn that client that I associated that pressure with every discovery call. Instead of Trying to maybe reframe the whole situation and think about like, well, how can I get this to work for me in a way that feels comfortable and safe? Just like those email funnels that aren’t working for me either. feel safe right now?

Sam Munoz 10:14
Totally. First of all, thank you so much for being vulnerable and transparent and sharing that story, because I think it’s really helpful to hear and I’m sure the people listening to this podcast are like, it sounds like it was really hard to experience that. And it sounds like you said, it set you back. And it made you kind of retreat, which is a really common defense mechanism, right? Like, I’m no therapist or anything like that. But like, that’s what happened, right? You tried something. And not only did it not go the way you thought it would, it went kind of in the opposite direction. And that’s hard, that’s hard to rebound from it. It’s also hard to not go to things that feel a little bit more easy and safe and comfortable. But I’m glad that you eventually stepped through that. And it would be really interesting to talk about, like what and why you did that. But I know one of the things that we wanted to talk about specifically with this podcast is some of those fears associated with discovery calls, like kind of identifying what those different things were, besides the lamp, which, you know, that would be hot, too. I’m always sweating. And one thing I did want to say, before we kind of get into those fears is, it’s really interesting that you said the word perform, like you felt like you didn’t perform well. And like a discovery call at its core isn’t about performance, right? It’s just about connecting with someone because perform. Also, that word to me says that you have to almost be putting on an act. Yeah, putting on a show, you know, putting on a front, when in reality, it’s just being another person. And at the end of the day, that’s what business is. It’s a person to person thing, especially when you’re a service provider. And especially when you’re doing something like what we do in our industry, where you’re working with people, it is about just showing up as a person. And there is a level of expertise, flexing that is required. But also, if your website’s doing that for you, too, they already know you’re an expert. They’re coming into here asking you questions, and there’s no need to flex into overcompensate. And so let’s get into some of those fears. A little bit. Yeah.

Karyn Paige 12:13
So I think really like at the root of it, there was a lot of like fear of being on the spot, honestly, like, there’s something that feels really safe about not being in the moment, face to face or voice to voice with somebody. And so the first thing that I had to like unlearn was, you’re not on the spot. You’re just talking. You’re just having a conversation, you’re not performing. You’re not trying to win somebody over here. I’m trying to get somebody to like, like you, you’re just talking,

Sam Munoz 12:46
you’re just talking, answering questions. And if you don’t know the answer to the question, right. And that could be a fear, too, is like, Oh my gosh, what if they asked me something I don’t know the answer to. I mean, this is advice. I’m sure a lot of us have heard giving presentations in high school or college, right? If you don’t know the answer, just say you don’t know the answer, and you’ll get back to them. Or I remember getting this advice a lot in college. And I remember, I’m going to go down this little rabbit hole for a second. But it was it was a really good learning lesson. I had this group project where we built this rocket and it failed. beautifully. Oh, we were trying to track the ozone. Oh, three, it was a horrible fail. But we we went into there and we were like you guys, like we’re gonna own that we like tried this and it didn’t work. And we’re gonna own the crappy data, and we’re gonna go with it. And if they ask us questions about things that we don’t know, we’re gonna say we don’t know. And we’re gonna stand in that integrity. And that, like we did really well on the presentation part of it because we stood in the integrity. And it’s the same thing on those calls. When you say, I don’t know, and we talked about this in Episode Four, when you say I don’t know, you release the pressure. And then you don’t have to be fearful about knowing everything. Because when you’re working with someone, one on one anyway, and you’re in their project, you will not know all the answers, and the more you can lean into that and admit that to yourself. And to them, the more trust that you’ll establish anyway, so that fear, we can let that one go.

Karyn Paige 14:07
There was also the fear too, of like, feeling like I needed to close on that call and like I needed to be an aggressive salesperson and say it’s going to cost this much Are you in or are you out like, which didn’t feel natural or aligned with who I am personally. So I was like, putting pressure on again, that word pressure comes up. Like it’s not a sales call. It’s a discovery call. It’s about learning. It’s about listening. And you don’t even have to you don’t have to do weird things like you know, collect money on the call or you know, all these things. It’s like, I think removing the pressure to sell, right especially if when you think of a salesperson you think of going to like a used car lot. You’re walking around and somebody is like preying on you and like hovering over you and and you feel like they’re trying to persuade you like that. Sometimes what we associate with sales, which its total, it can be, and I’ve seen that, but it doesn’t have to be that, like disassociating and unlearning that, like happened on that call. You don’t have to feel that pressure to like, close is also a really great way of like relieving yourself of that pressure.

15:16
Absolutely.

Karyn Paige 15:16
I think another big thing is like the fear of rejection, like what if you, you’re on this call with this person, and you’re chatting for, you know, 15 minutes, 2030 minutes? And then you say, Would you like me to send you a proposal? And they’re like, No, no, I wouldn’t I don’t want to work with you. First of all, that’s never happened.

Sam Munoz 15:35
If it’s already vibing, and you’re getting to the point where you’re like offering the proposal, there’s a reason and they’re most likely going to say, yes, they might reject you on the back end. And that’s okay, too. We could talk about that later. But the likelihood that they’re gonna say no, after spending all that time talking to you very unlikely.

Karyn Paige 15:50
Yeah. But it’s not even. It’s not even the No, it’s them the waiting to hear face, or are you hearing that through the phone? No, karyn, I don’t want to work with you Goodbye, like that. Right? That fear of just hearing it, not the fact that the project isn’t gonna move forward, you know, yeah, like, yeah, that fear can feel like really real. And so avoiding that at all costs can sometimes be really appealing, right?

Sam Munoz 16:19
I think a lot of these to kind of go down to practice. Also, some of these things are still going to be there, when you do the calls, even if you move past them. I mean, I’ve been doing discovery calls for however long now. And I still have some of these fears, too. Another one we have that we wanted to share was like just showing up on camera in general. And like being pre judged for how you look, or how your environment looks, or the quality of your webcam, or if the link worked the first time, like all of those pre judgments that are involved with this kind of stuff, especially when it comes to your appearance. And as women like we’re already scrutinized all the time for how we look, those things are all real. And I think that it is something that the more you do it and the more you move through those fears, and allow them to come up and not try to like stifle them, but just say I’m gonna do it anyway. Because I know that this is good for my business like that practice, the fear has less power over you. Right, you’re like, Okay, maybe I’m not like the most beautiful person in the world. But I’m not, I’m not going to let that stop me from taking this next move in my business that I know is going to work like I am 100% bought into the idea that getting on Discovery calls is going to work for me. So I’m going to hold space for these fears. But I’m also going to allow myself to fully move through them so that I can get on this call and rocket

Karyn Paige 17:43
because here’s the thing, right? Like, I want to circle back to the idea that he brought up of as women feeling like we have to like look really good on camera, and like this association that we have, where if we look good, we are good. If we we look worthy, we are worthy. And I don’t know who needs to hear this. But if you’re listening in godless for I’m just gonna put this out there for you like, the way you look is not an indication of what you’re capable of doing. That is so important. Like, I don’t need you to have a face contour like a Kardashian Jenner. I don’t need you to have a ring light. I don’t need you to have like, it’s okay if if you have wrinkles, it’s okay. If you have dark circles, it’s okay. If your hair is in like the messiest top knot. I am here to listen to how you can help me, right. And actually, if you show up to the call, like a normal person with a cat, you know, your house with cat running around over your zoom, or you’ve got Legos in your background like that lets me know that you’re a real person. And I can connect with that. Yeah, in spite of all the things that are happening in your zoom background, you’re still like, boom, boom, boom, this is how I can help you get what you need in order to achieve your goals. I’m like, Yes. And now you just given me permission to show up in yoga pants,

Sam Munoz 19:08
your most authentic self.

Karyn Paige 19:09
Yeah, precisely right like that. That’s just, it’s huge to me, I feel really, really passionate about that. And here I am, like, you can’t see me but I’ve got on like, cat eyeliner and makeup or whatever. But that’s because that’s actually what I need. Feel good, like 14 times

Sam Munoz 19:25
that’s for you. Right? And that’s and that’s a huge thing. Okay, so we’ve talked about the fears and like identified those things. And I think like pulling it back a little bit and talking about like, Okay, if we are going to like buy into this idea that I’m going to move through the fears like how do we start to address some of those mindset things to like, actually want to show up. And I think it’s really a big part of it is just like, let’s try it and see what happens and being willing to just step into the unknown of getting on a discovery call and being open to the idea that it might help you land a client, right? And it might not it might not workout. And if we’re talking like conversion rates, this is why tracking the numbers is so important, because then you can prove to yourself, oh my gosh, I have a 50% conversion rate. Great. So I just need to get on two calls if I want to book one project, and one of them might fail horribly. But you know what, I know that the other one will go great. And it’ll be awesome. You know what I mean? Like, you can start to remind yourself, oh, no, no, no fear, you’re not real. That’s not true. All of these things that, you know, you’re putting on me, these aren’t truths. These are just feelings. So let’s just see what happens when I do this.

Karyn Paige 20:31
Let’s just see what happens, right? Like as Okay, to reframe it in a way that you can kind of transfer one area in your life where you feel confident into a place where you don’t feel confident, right? Like, as web designers, we all know what it feels like to try something in a design or like in the development implementation, where we were like, Oh, no, if this is gonna work, this might break the site, like,

20:54
I don’t know, like, I’ve

Karyn Paige 20:54
never done this before. But I have a screen of death wisecleaner death, and you’re in spite of that, you’re like, let’s just see what happens when I do this. Let’s just see what happens when I move this here. You know, et cetera, et cetera. We all know what that feels like in building a website. And sometimes it works. And sometimes it doesn’t work. But it’s like, you have to kind of try it, it can really work coming from a place of like curiosity, like that curiosity that we have, as web designers, we can apply that into the, let’s just see what happens when I get on this call today. Like,

21:27
I love that

Karyn Paige 21:28
also, like, what if it works, instead of thinking of like, this is not going to work? This discovery call is going to fail, I’m gonna suck at it. It’s like, what if I don’t suck at it? What if it turns out, you’re really good at it, right? And like me, where I was like, I actually enjoy being on calls now. Because I stopped approaching it from I need to be number one Ace at this and more of like, I get to listen to a person. And I get to hear about what’s going on in their world. And let’s just see if I can help them.

Sam Munoz 22:03
Yeah, that’s great. And I love that idea of like, the transferable skills, because it’s like, you’re already bold enough as a web designer to try things that you don’t know if they’re going to work. I just love the idea of like, what if we took that same approach and just like took that energy and that confidence and just kind of like, transferred it over to this call?

Karyn Paige 22:22
And then see the growth? Right? Like, okay, the first time you do anything, it’s probably not gonna be like, super stellar. 100% slam dunk, right? But you look back at your growth, like, Okay, the first website ever built. Not my best work, you know what I mean? he keep doing something, you get better, it gets easier, it gets simpler, you start to look for the things maybe where you need to spend a little bit more time to get good at right. But you don’t get to that point of the confidence without the trying, right without getting on the calls.

Sam Munoz 23:02
That’s right, you’re not going to be it’s like the first one is, you might not know exactly what to say. I have like very conflicting thoughts on like, a script, quote, unquote, I’ve never went when I do discovery calls for booking web design and development projects, I don’t really have like a script, you know, like, I’m not like, okay, now I need to like read this thing, it really just comes down to those three things we talked about in Episode Four, which is just like, listen to their problems, and then take notes. And then my questions are just about their problems or like, what they’re looking to do. And then figuring out if I can help them, I just identify from their problems, like, what are the problems that I can solve? What are the problems I can’t solve? And then I guess, like, the last part of the script, quote, unquote, would be, do you want me to send you a proposal, but it just like comes naturally. And I think that that’s a really nice way to approach these because you can’t really script understanding someone’s problem. That’s why it’s helpful to have like more of a guidelines, and then just take notes. And listen, and we talked Yeah, we talked about that in Episode Four, just like listening ears on. And then if we’re talking about all these fears, a lot of them go away. Because if your goal is just to listen, you don’t have to worry about being a salesperson, you don’t have to worry about saying the wrong thing. Because all you’re doing is listening and providing guidance where you can. And when you don’t have the answer, you’re just saying, I look that up and I’ll put that in my proposal. I’ll put that in the email that I send you with my proposal.

Karyn Paige 24:22
And like, here’s the other thing, too. It’s like, I love nothing more than hearing a woman say, I know how to build a website. I know how to do it. You need I can do this. Like I’m good at it. Like without a doubt building websites is my jam. That’s what I do. It’s what I do. And so the idea that like being on the call is the thing that’s stopping you from doing what you’re doing because you’re afraid of maybe how you look or that you’re going to be put on the spot, whatever. Like let’s sit in that for a second. I need you to channel that competence, right like that. I’m the ish at building websites. rate. Great, great, great. So if the only thing stopping you from building another website and getting another client is this idea that like, you’re not going to show up well in this call, like, we need to pack how we can get out of that block for you, because you need to be building those websites that you know you can build. Right? Right.

Sam Munoz 25:17
That’s where your expertise is, that is where your zone of genius is. And that shines through on the cause. And that’s why you don’t have to be like an expert salesperson. You just have to be an expert at what you’re doing. And then listen and talk to people.

Karyn Paige 25:31
Like one thing that that also, I wish that I had thought of that it occurred to me that somebody had mentioned to me before it was like, well, bad. If you’re not good at calls, find your your biz bestie. I’m, like, get on some practice calls, like get on some mock discovery calls, you know, cuz that’s okay. Because that’s the other thing, right? Like, if you don’t feel confident on the call, you’re probably less likely to send out your discovery calling, or to invite somebody to get on a call. So it becomes this, like, this loop of I’m not good at it. So I’m not going to do it. I’m not going to do it. So I’m not going to get good at it. Right? Yeah. And this is why I love what we’re doing in the making website Magic School of Business is that we have this emphasis this focus on the Discovery Call it what do you say? How can you navigate this so that you can build that confidence? It’s totally okay to practice with a friend until you get good.

26:28
Or, you know,

Karyn Paige 26:30
I love that the thought crossed my mind the other day, like, hey, maybe I should do a little role playing like with, with Sam, when he does a role playing with Sam and just just see how this pans out? You know, that loop of you don’t do it? So you’re not good at it. And you feel like you’re not good at it. So you don’t want to do it.

Sam Munoz 26:49
Yeah. And how demoralizing Is that right? Like, then you never get the chance to do the thing that you’re actually good at that you’re really that you’re really passionate about, I should say, which is the building of the websites. And that’s what the core of your business is.

Karyn Paige 27:01
So just to kind of like wrap things up. I also want to touch on the idea that like trying strategies that are really more designed for like a passive income stream, or like a one to many business model like shattered us, like your freebies, and your email, nurture sequences, and Facebook ads, and things like that, where it’s like, you’re just putting out some sort of siren sound into the world, and you’re hoping somebody picks up on it, and you’re hoping somebody likes you and chooses you like those can feel so safe. If you’re like it’s either do maybe there’s more passive thing or do a really more active thing, like getting on a discovery call, like Which one are you gonna choose if you’re in this space of like, I need to feel safe, I need to feel secure, what’s comfortable. But ultimately, like, those strategies are really not in service of this like one to one web design service provider business model that we’re in. Because here’s the thing bad like, when you’re working on a project with a client, it is one to one you are interacting with them. You might not be hopping on calls or as much, hopefully you’re hopping on calls to like check in with revisions and things. But at some point, you’re going to have to work one to one with somebody to get that website built, right.

Sam Munoz 28:22
So you have to be willing to like step out of those things that feel comfortable and feel like they’re moving the needle forward. But they’re really not. Because they appear, you know, you’re like, but I built the funnel. And I spent today creating this opt in and all of those things are avoiding the thing that is actually going to work well for your business, which is getting on calls with people and networking with people. Those things are the busy work, they’re the things that make you feel like you’re doing things. But again, it’s avoiding and procrastinating the thing that you know, is going to help you the most because of the fear. And because of the what if it doesn’t work? Or what if I you know, mess up on the call. That’s the bigger fear, right? Because if you get on the call and you get on enough of them, it’s going to work but all those things about rejection and showing up on camera and not feeling like an expert and all of those things that are just in the back of your head just telling you you shouldn’t do it.

Karyn Paige 29:17
That idea of like the busy work, feeling safe, it’s like but is it going to be a profitable for you, discovery calls are going to get you to the profit and the revenue that you’re looking for more so than writing a sales funnel, writing an email nurture sequence that may be somebody opt in stumbles

29:41
on,

Karyn Paige 29:43
stumbles upon right so

Sam Munoz 29:45
it really comes down to like a passive versus like an active business where you’re like actively doing tasks that you know, have the potential to turn into an opportunity and into a project. I like to think about it. You know, I Know that I talk to you about this all the time karyn about like setting targets instead of goals. And instead of like things that are outside of your control, the things that are in your control are things like sending out your discovery calling. And so to kind of wrap everything up and to pull in something really positive, is, like karyn said before, stay curious. And body, that willingness to just try stuff that you already have as a web designer, or developer and like channel that energy into the discovery call. So you just say, you know what this call might turn into white screen of death, it really might, it might just burn down in flames, like I might just totally fail it, but I’m gonna learn something, I’m going to have this practice and experience under my belt. And on the flip side, it might turn into a client, and I might just have given myself an opportunity.

Karyn Paige 30:53
It could be awesome. It could be totally also, it could turn into a client. If it doesn’t work out, hey, sometimes things don’t work out. It’s nothing personal. It’s not an indication of what you’re capable of. And we are in the business of active work, not passive work. So we need to be active in how we get clients on those books and not necessarily be passive, because that’s not what our business model is.

Sam Munoz 31:19
I love that I think this is a good place to end it. You guys go get on Discovery calls, feel confident do a little I like to listen to like a good pumpup song beforehand to kind of get my energy right. That is my very practical thing that I do before a discovery call. So go get on a call. Tell us how it goes tag us on Instagram or you know, send us a little dm on Instagram. I’m at Hello Sam Munoz. karyn is at karyn page. We would love to hear how your next discovery call goes. And you got this

31:46
Yeah, you’re capable