SPEAKERS
Karyn Paige, Sam Munoz

Sam Munoz 00:00
As a service provider like your CTA should be book a call with you. I believe that this extends across all industries, but really taking it back and bringing it back into us. every aspect of your business is one to one. So starting with that one to one experience, especially when it’s like they can hear your voice, they can learn to trust you. They know what it’s like to work with you and to interact with you outside of just like texting, so important. You can get so much like vibe energy from someone on a discovery call. You can see does this really click? Are they hearing me and listening to me? Do I feel respected? Do they feel respected? You know, there’s just so much that you can get from a interaction that’s more face to face whether or not it is literally face to face. Welcome to making website magic where we empower women to step boldly into their web design businesses follow their intuition and claim the success they’re worthy of. I’m Sam Munoz.

Karyn Paige 01:00
And I’m Karyn page, where the tech wizards behind Sam Munoz consulting on the making website Magic School of Business. We’re two women here to talk about what it actually takes to run a web design business that’s aligned with your vision.

Sam Munoz 01:13
Spoiler alert, it probably isn’t what you think it is ready to hear about everything from refining your business vision, networking with intention and creating a magical client experience.

01:22
Let’s do it.

Sam Munoz 01:29
Why hello there, Karyn. How are you today?

01:33
I’m doing really well. Sam, how are you?

Sam Munoz 01:36
I’m doing awesome, especially looking at our topic for today, which is discovery calls. Because as you know, this is like my love language. If discovery calls could be a love language, I think I’m declaring that I love them.

Karyn Paige 01:50
And you should love them, because you’re really good at them. So

01:53
Oh, thank you. Well, that’s well, you’re welcome. It’s

Karyn Paige 01:56
true. I just speak the truth. How about that?

Sam Munoz 01:59
Oh, thank you. The thing that I love about them, though, is not only do I love doing them, but I also love what they do for business. And that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. And I’m so excited to talk about discovery calls because they are the bomb. I wanted to start by saying they go by many names, discovery calls, consultation calls, sales calls, next step calls, whatever you want to call it, no pun intended, it is an opportunity for you to get to know your potential client and take a next step with them. I will say that I used to call them consultation calls, that was like my thing. They’d be free 15 minute consultation, and I loved calling them that I thought it really worked. You know, the business is named Sam Munoz consulting. So I figured it kind of aligned with the business name. That was the decision there not a lot of thought into the name of it, because it didn’t really matter. Right. That’s not a place to get stuck and fixated. So discovery calls. That’s what we’re talking about.

02:55
Yes,

02:57
I call my

Karyn Paige 02:58
discovery calls discovery calls to Yeah, and there was definitely a time where it was like a consultation call, etc, etc. But I think discovery call just feels really natural. So that’s the language that I like to use.

Sam Munoz 03:10
Yes. And you know, I think is really cool, too. And we can get into this when we talk about, you know, all the different things we want to touch on. But I think for some reason discovery calls also feels like no pressure, which is definitely my approach to quote unquote, selling, I don’t even really use that word, because it’s more of like, here’s what you need, here’s what I can do, do those two things align, and if so awesome. So discovery calls feels more free like that, we’re discovering things about each other. It’s like a two way street. So I did want to share a story, or just I guess, kind of origin story type situation with discovery calls, I will say, you know, I started the business, I was actually looking at the numbers and stuff as I was preparing this case study for our self assessment video that we have for the making website, Magic School of Business, and I was looking at different numbers. And technically, I actually accepted my first payment for the business in 2017, in December, and I was just like, looking at the numbers and looking at all the calls and stuff. And I remembered those first two years, especially my main goal every morning when I woke up, and I started working. And I was you know, quote, unquote, looking for clients. I don’t even really like to use that phrase. But when I was putting myself out there to accept client work, my main goal was get on as many discovery calls as you can Sam, send out your discovery call link. And when I would wake up to you know, two people on my call calendar that day, I would be like, yes, yes, I get to talk to people. And I’m an introvert, like, and I know you are too, right care.

04:36
Oh, yeah.

Sam Munoz 04:37
Yeah, I’m like, I need to preserve that energy. So like, there’s a way in calendly to make it so you have like enough buffer room in between, and you can only like book so many calls in one day of the, you know, the same type. So I definitely did those things. But my goal was like, get on calls, talk to people and just go with it. And the first year in business, I actually didn’t do any calls face to face, video style. It was all on the phone, I just wasn’t comfortable yet with the idea of like, sitting down and like having to feel more prepared, having my background ready. And all of those things, I just wanted to just talk to people. And so I did that, and it worked. I’m just gonna say it, it worked. 100%.

05:15
That’s awesome.

05:15
I mean,

Karyn Paige 05:16
I think it’s really important to make that distinction to you. No one, you and I are both introverts. And I feel like a lot of folks listening to the podcast can relate to that. But for me, as an introvert, I actually really enjoy being on Discovery calls, because I’m so comfortable being by myself, and you know, doing computer work, etc. It’s a really nice break in the routine to get to talk to somebody. And one of the things that I really enjoy about a discovery call is, like you said, it’s just you’re just learning, you’re just getting to know you’re asking questions and bouncing ideas off of each other. And ultimately, like, as the web designer, you’re trying to think of ways that you can help the person. So I LOVE LOVE, LOVE discovery calls for that reason.

Sam Munoz 05:58
Yes, I totally agree. And I honestly like I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people listening to this podcast are introverts, like you said, because a lot of what we do is like backend stuff, right? And it’s very like, this is why the one to one model works so well in this space, because it is energy filling. And it’s hard sometimes when you have to like be quote, unquote, on for like a live video. That’s like a totally different experience than talking to someone directly and like getting the feedback from them, and having it be a very like intimate and personal connection. So this is a perfect transition into kind of breaking the jargon for a minute and actually discussing what a discovery call is not necessarily yet what to say in them, or the purpose of them or anything like that. But what what is it? What do we mean when we say discovery call. So I’m going to like, I’m going to spell it out, you have on your website, or you have you know, in some you have a link to some sort of schedule, or let’s say, right, it’s a way for someone to get on the phone with you, whether that be a phone call or a video chat, so that you can talk to them about what they need, and then see if you can help them. So you might send out your scheduler through something like calendly, or acuity, I do think that setting up a schedule for yourself is a great way to seem and an act professional as a business owner, right to say like, this is my availability, let’s hop on a phone call together and talk about what you need. That is what we mean by discovery calls, it is the one on one connection in action.

Karyn Paige 07:23
Yes. And the one on one connection, I think is really at the core of a discovery call. Because let’s talk about, you know, let’s never forget that, as web designers, we are in the business of one to one, right. And so that connection that you can make on the Discovery call is really one of the first steps in the journey of you booking your next client.

Sam Munoz 07:48
And here’s the thing, and it’s something that we talk about in our program. And it’s something that you guys probably hear us talk about, like on social media and in our magic minutes like mini version of this podcast, but we’ve truly believe that this is a better way to spend your time connecting with people one on one, you know, whether that be like through Facebook Messenger, Instagram, DMS, talking with them in person, like going to a networking event and handing them your business card. When someone takes my business card, they are directed to book a call with me like that is the number one goal. So basically all roads lead to the discovery call. And it’s really interesting now kind of stepping into mentoring people in web design and development because we have for so long served other service providers in creating websites for them. And I remember so many times we’re more like collecting all their information and asking, you know, what is the purpose of your website, I would always say as a service provider, like your CTA should be book a call with you. I believe that this extends across all industries. But really taking it back and bringing it back into us. every aspect of your business is one to one. So starting with that one to one experience, especially when it’s like they can hear your voice they can learn to trust you. They know what it’s like to work with you and to interact with you outside of just like texting, so important. You can get so much like vibe energy from someone on a discovery call. You can see does this really click? Are they hearing me and listening to me? Do I feel respected? Do they feel respected? You know, there’s just so much that you can get from a interaction that’s more face to face whether or not it is literally face to face?

Karyn Paige 09:25
I 100% agree with that. And for me, it’s you know, I love to make analogies about like other industries and how it relates back to web design. So I’m thinking about like, when I found my hairstylist, you know, her call to action on her website was come to a free consultation. Oh, yeah. And it was amazing. I went to her salon. We just talked I vibed with her I felt very comfortable with her. And when we were done, she didn’t try to like push me into getting my haircut on that day. She was like, okay, like, think about things and think of some ideas. And then when you’re ready, and you have some ideas of what you want, come back and book an appointment, and we’ll go from there.

10:09
I love that so much.

Karyn Paige 10:10
Yeah, it looks like it’s the same concept really applies. You know, it’s like with discovery calls for web design work, but I feel like there’s so much value in that one to one connection. And it’s just, it bears repeating really, like, we just can’t skip over that. Absolutely. That’s the purpose of a discovery call,

Sam Munoz 10:28
you know, and you know, the thing is to that it’s really about warming them up to you. And starting that personal experience, right. So helping them see, again, kind of going back to that like trust ability, it’s easier and simpler to have someone learn who you are, when it’s like that when they can talk to you and ask questions and feel heard and seen versus something like social media, where you’re going on and you’re posting something, and people are quickly liking it, giving you a little tap? And then it’s like, what was that a connection? Was that an interaction? Or was that like, a passive action that they made? You know, so it’s like way more in depth, and you’re gonna remember a 1530 minute conversation, and we can talk about that too, in terms of time spent, you know, you might think to yourself, oh, a discovery call, I don’t want to offer like a 15 or 30 minute thing where someone’s not paying me, but then investigate with yourself, are you spending 15 or more minutes on something that you know, is probably not going to work anyway, like creating a new Canva graphic, or going into a group and posting to 20,000 different people saying that you want to work with them, you know, in like a big group capacity, like, what is a good use of time, we just posted about this on our Instagram about busy work and profitable work. And this is this is an example of something that is damn worth your time. Oh, my

Karyn Paige 11:46
gosh, like, let that sink in for a second? Just if you had 30 minutes? Would you rather spend that on creating a Canva graphic and posting something on Instagram that might get seen by a handful of people who are just going to like it and then keep scrolling? Or would you rather spend 30 minutes, one to one, building a connection with someone that is already like looking for what you have to offer?

Sam Munoz 12:11
I think that’s the big thing about the discovery calls, right is okay, so I love having it as like a top bar call to action on the website. And I love saying like, you know, we’re now booking for April 2022, or whatever it is, if someone takes the time to book that call with you, you know, they’re already interested in what you’re doing, you know, that they already have a need that you may be able to solve, you may not they might need something that you don’t offer. And that’s okay. But it’s still worth your time to get on that call. Because not only will you potentially book that client, but you never know who they can connect you to. You never know if they are going to need you later on down the road. You never know if you can just learn more information about who and what people need. So they are always worth the time 100% 100%,

Karyn Paige 12:58
I want to kind of like, go back to what you said about like it being the person’s already a little bit warmed up to you. But if they take the time to book that call, I just think you’re so much more likely to book a client from a discovery call than you are through a cold lead, which like someone who’s cold, who’s not warmed up is not really like looking for what you have or whatever. Or like you said before, like you threw a comment out there into a Facebook group of 20,000 people, maybe somebody will pick your link out of dozens of people who respond to a general inquiry that, you know,

Sam Munoz 13:31
heck, yeah, even another example, Karyn would be like the, you know, like the whole opt in funnel thing that everybody says, right? It’s like, oh, create an opt in and then nurture people through the sequence and like, send them through the thing and like, they’ll all love you. And then they’ll want to buy your thing at the end. If you were doing that as a service provider, which I 0% recommend, I would say your call to action on every single one of those emails should be book a call with me because you need to get those people to talk to you one on one. Because if you’re just creating this like template of emails that everybody’s getting, what kind of personal experience is that? And is that also how it’s going to be working with you? Is it going to feel like this is just some template experience? Well, then if it is, and I’m not going to pay you $5,000 for a website, I want something that is connected to me, I want it to feel customized, I want it to feel special, I want it to feel like I’m getting something that is worth that kind of money. So there you go,

Karyn Paige 14:22
okay, holler at that, because that’s another bonus and purpose of a discovery call is I feel like it really kind of changes the dynamic of the relationship that you have with a potential client, right? Like when you’re on a discovery call, you get to guide the direction of the call, you get to position yourself as an expert, you get to ask the potential client, like, what is it that you’re looking for, and then make suggestions based on your experience or your expertise, right? And so it already is adding that value in there, right which you can tie back into, you know, your pricing etc. and the experience that they can expect to have with you when they’re in the Project. But one of the biggest things that is so frustrating to me when people are using other methods outside of discovery calls to try to learn clients is they feel like what ends up happening is the person looking for the website? Is the person guiding the experience. If you’re like, hey, in a Facebook group of 20,000 people, you’re like, hey, I need a website, are there any web designers in the house, you know what I mean? And then what ends up happening is they’re like, picking somebody that they might want to work with based on a price. And then the web designers are kind of like in this bidding war in this price war and things like that. But when when someone is on your call, they’re in your house, Oh, hello, you’re the host or the hostess, and you get to say, let me roll out the red carpet for you and paint this picture for you. And all of this is the problem we have or this is the goal you want to achieve. I can provide that result for you, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Seems like we’ve made a good connection here over the past 15 minutes, 30 minutes, would you like to move forward? How would you like to proceed? You know what I mean? It’s like, totally just like, just the dynamic,

Sam Munoz 16:03
like just gels, right? Yeah, flowy, it’s not like you’re walking through mud. It’s just like I’m having a conversation with someone I like to think of. And we’re gonna give a little bit of juice from the program right here from the making website, Magic School of Business program, because we dive deeper, way deeper into discovery calls. But I’m going to give you guys like a little tidbit here. Because I think that this is really, really important, especially if you have a discovery call and you know, on your calendar, or sometime in the next week, you can take this and you can think about this, when you go into it, your discovery call has just a couple very specific purposes, you want to understand what this person needs, you want to understand if you can even help them with what you offer. And then you need to understand if they are interested in having you help them it is those three things, understand what they need, understand if you can help them, and then understand if they want you to help them. And then the next step from there is great. Can I send you a proposal for that? Or are you interested in me sending you a proposal for that? Nine times out of 10? They’re gonna say, Wait, so you can help me? Yes, send me your proposal, obviously. And now you fully understand their problem, you fully understand their needs. So your proposal is way richer? Because you’re like, No, no, this isn’t just a one size fits all thing. Even if you have packages. It’s still like, I heard what you needed. This is the best package for you. You ready to work together? What I mean, like,

17:27
Oh,

Karyn Paige 17:28
it’s Kismet. And it’s also like, Oh, yes, that’s that’s all it is like it really like you said, expert, you become the expert,

17:35
you

Karyn Paige 17:36
become the expert. And it’s like, like releases yourself have a little bit of pressure. You know

Sam Munoz 17:41
what I mean? So much. And it’s not a sales call, right? It’s not like, okay, pull out your wallet. And like, let’s accept payment now. No, like, you can’t even pull out your wallet yet. Because you don’t know the price yet. Because I haven’t sent you the proposal yet. Like I I love when people ask me the price because I give them a ballpark range? Because I’m like, No, no, I don’t want to tell you a price right now. Because I want to make sure that I have enough time to take what you told me today on this discovery call, analyze what you said, and make sure it fits into this price point that I’m offering. Especially if you have like multiple packages, it’s such a good time to say I want to make sure that I’m giving you the best advice possible. Like there’s like we could go so deep into that. And again, like that’s something that we get into in the program in terms of like what to say and how to like navigate the call. So you feel confident. But again, just remember, it’s about what they need, if you can help and if they want to move forward, not necessarily move forward to work with you. But they want to move forward to get that proposal from you so that they can obviously say yes,

Karyn Paige 18:39
yeah, it’s step step steps. It’s little like incremental, like baby steps, right? Hey, and so I want to like circle back to about there was something that you said, I think about, like the pressure or like putting yourself in the driver’s seat, but mostly about competence. You said, it’s about the confidence of being on the call. Discovery calls can be scary. If it’s not something that you’re used to doing. It can make you feel a little bit nervous. You know, it’s like anything, if you haven’t done it before, you don’t have the the practice or the experience. And so let’s just be real, it’s totally normal. If this feels like frightening if it’s something you haven’t done before.

Sam Munoz 19:17
And I did mention, I think I mentioned this at the top right that I did all of mine on the phone, I was not ready yet to commit, I think to doing it on zoom. I don’t I had this big fear around it. And it was interesting that I did because I also like I would you know talk to friends on zoom and like this was before 2020 when like zoom became everybody’s best friend but like, I was not ready for that yet. And so on the phone, I felt like I could be more clear headed. I had my notebook there and I would tell them on the phone. I’d be like, Oh, if you hear me like moving around, I’m just like taking notes over here. But then over time as I did more and like full disclosure 2018 first year in business, I did 61 discovery calls. So like I got the practice.

19:59
Wow.

Sam Munoz 20:02
That’s huge. And it was just, it was one of those things that like over time, I just got more comfortable. And I just remember I am I’m one of those people who like, I really remember where I was when I like did calls or like, or when I when anything happens. I’m like, Oh yeah, we were here and this was happening. This is my hair color, like all these things. I say I say my hair color. I’ve literally dyed my hair three times. So like, time stamps. Hello. But anyway, I was at a coffee shop, I had just had a discovery call actually on the phone earlier that day. And then I had another one and I stepped outside to do this call, because I’m really shy. So I’m not going to do this in front of other people. You know, I was on the phone. And she was telling me about her problems. She was like, you know, these are the things that I need. And I was just we could talk about this about not coaching people necessarily, or not giving too much away, but I was giving really sound advice. And I was like, Oh, well, maybe you could try this. And this is something that I’ve done for another client that’s really worked well for them. This is something that I know how to do. This is something I don’t know how to do all of these things, right? Just answering questions, listening, listening. And then it was so interesting, because at the end of the call, she said I got on this discovery call 100% not going to work with you. Not because of me. She was like I just wasn’t ready to hire someone yet. But can you send me that proposal because I want to work with you. And I thought that was amazing, sent the proposal. And she did indeed book the project. And it was it wasn’t like a full website build. But it was like a couple different little things. And it was definitely like over 14 $100 for the work that we were doing together. And it was just so cool to just realize, like, I remember being like, dang that. That was really cool. Like, I just listened. I gave advice. And then she felt confident enough to say, actually, like, you’ve explained why this is important for me to do now. But it wasn’t a sales call. Right? It was just me giving her the permission to say yes, I want to move forward or not like it was it’s a complete, like, yes, you’re the expert. And you’re like the driver of the conversation, but you are giving someone else the power, you are empowering them. You’re not saying like, this is the only way. So if you say no to this opportunity, like, girl, you’re missing out, you know what I mean? So that was one of my favorite discovery calls. And I think about it a lot.

Karyn Paige 22:13
That’s such a great story, too. And the key takeaway word out of that story is listening. Right? It’s listening. And it’s not persuasion. It’s not like feeling like you have to force somebody into booking on that call. It’s really just I’m listening. I’m here, it’s, it’s coming to the whole conversation with like a heart of service. Right? Like as a service provider. It’s the first word in what we do you know what it’s like one on one service. And the biggest part of service is listening. It’s a gift that you can give somebody to like, ask them what’s going on with you will tell me about you. I’m just here to listen. And like, if I have some advice that I think will work for you. I’m going to share it with you. And there was another thing that you said in that story that really stood out for me was you saying there’s some stuff I know how to do and stuff and some stuff I don’t know how to do Oh, heck yeah. Like that’s also another value for you as a web designer, they like yes, you are an expert in the things that you do. But you also don’t have to pretend that you have all the answers. And it’s okay on a discovery call to be like, Hey, you know, I think that’s a resource I can get back to you. So that’s the other part of why it’s, it’s not just a sales call, it can be can totally closed on an honor discovery. And by closing, I mean, like, send the proposal and then you know, but sometimes it’s also like, in that discovery for yourself, as the web designer, you’re like me, this person means something I can give them like 85% of what they need, but that other 15%, I’m gonna have to like, take some time, discover how I can help them or if that’s something in my, my range, and then get back to them and still add that into the proposal, etc. So

Sam Munoz 23:51
it’s like, also talk about trust, right? about trust, when you are able to be transparent with someone and say, you know, that’s something that I haven’t tried before. But I’d be really interested in learning more about it, potentially doing it with you. The number of times I’ve told someone that even to this, like this year, you know, this happened to Karyn, we worked with a client who wanted to use a platform we’d never used before. And I was very open and honest and said, I’ve never used that before. I’m totally curious to see how it would work. And if it could work for you and all of these things, but like know this going into it that this is going to be something we’re learning as we do this, but that transparency, that honesty and that dedication to authenticity, those things cannot be expressed in a marketing funnel. They cannot be expressed in a Facebook ad if someone said that they can I would 100% disagree. Like I just think that those things happen when you when you create that more intimate experience with someone through something like a discovery call. Yeah. So I truly encourage you if you are listening to this episode and you are like wow, I am sold on the idea of discovery call I know that this is what I need to be adding to my business and to be doing in my business on the daily, finding people for the discovery calls, and then also getting on more of them and getting on them and practicing the process. If you’re like, Yes, I am a discovery call queen. I love it, I hear what you’re saying. And I need it definitely, definitely encourage you to look into the making website, Magic School of Business, we have an entire section on Discovery calls. It’s basically the overarching theme of the program is how to get on Discovery calls, what to say how to follow up from them, there is an entire feedback loop that we’ve created as a part of our framework. And one of the pivotal sections of it is getting on Discovery calls and feeling confident in them. And again, knowing what to say and coming from a very authentic place so that you can close those sales and just continue to pull people into your business in a really intentional and thoughtful and aligned way. So definitely check that out, you guys.

Karyn Paige 25:59
Yeah. So just kind of wrapping things up with the final like magic minutes. Discovery calls are the money. They’re the biz, they’re the money. And also, it’s that personal interaction that’s going to help you book more web design clients,

26:16
period. Full

26:17
stop.

Sam Munoz 26:18
I love that, Karyn, if we’re thinking about things to track also, I encourage you if you are not already tracking the number of discovery calls you’re getting on start that today, because it is so much more meaningful to track that than the track the number of followers you have on Instagram.

26:34
Yep.

Karyn Paige 26:37
Amen. Another period full stop, like, yes, numbers that matter.

Sam Munoz 26:43
I know that in a future episode, we’ll be talking more deeply about the fear that’s involved in getting on Discovery calls. So if you are like no, I’m buying into the idea of discovery calls but I’m also still feeling really nervous about it. 100% encourage you to keep listening look for that episode when it goes live. The fears around discovery calls because it’s real. I can’t wait to talk to you guys next time.