Karyn Paige 00:00
Some styles of sales and marketing can kind of be more masculine, some can be kind of more feminine. So full transparency from a different lens, this permission based strategy, I feel is really rooted in this idea that in our society, people who identify as masculine are really coached and encouraged to just go out, get what you want not really ask for permission, right? And as people who are, you know, socialized women identify very feminine, we’re kind of socialized to not say no, sometimes or not even be asked if we want to say yes. And so there’s this idea of when you get consent, and you ask for it, and everybody’s on the same page, it can actually eliminate a lot of hurt feelings, a lot of harm, and it can make sure that everybody is getting what they need. And everybody’s on the same page with what’s happening.

Sam Munoz 01:03
Welcome to Making website magic where we empower women to step boldly into their web design, businesses follow their intuition and claim the success they’re worthy of. I’m Sam Munoz.

Karyn Paige 01:14
And I’m Karen Page, where the Tech Wizards behind Sam Linnaeus consulting and the making website Magic School of Business. Were two women here to talk about what it actually takes to run a web design business that’s aligned with your vision.

Sam Munoz 01:26
Spoiler alert, it probably isn’t what you think it is ready to hear about everything from refining your business vision, networking with intention and creating a magical client experience.

Karyn Paige 01:36
Let’s do it.

Sam Munoz 01:43
Hello, there, Karen.

Karyn Paige 01:44
Hello there sale.

Sam Munoz 01:47
I wish that everyone listening could hear the five to 15 seconds before we actually start talking, just because we’re always giggly and laughing and just talking about something random. So I just think it’s funny that we come in and we’re so serious with our hellos. But hello to you, Karen. Hello to those that are listening. Today we’re talking about consent based or permission based marketing for web designers and developers. I am very eager to get into this topic. We have a lot of things we want to touch on. So let’s not even waste any time.

Karyn Paige 02:20
Yes. Okay. So in our previous episode, we talked about, you know, how to have a successful discovery call. We were mentioning this idea of using consent based permission based strategies, and we were so excited about it, then we’re like, let’s put a pin in it and devote an entire episode to this right. So this is kind of this is why we’re here with that devoted episode. And also, this is a conversation for folks who have that fear of appearing really salesy and pushy, right. What if that’s not something that is a fear for you? This is a great like strategy episode.

Sam Munoz 02:58
Yes. And the fact an idea of people feeling pushy or salesy, like too much when they’re in conversations is something that we’ve heard from people in our mentorship I definitely hear and have seen in business groups, especially amongst women. You know, they’re like, I’m really skilled and really talented. I want to sell my services, but I don’t know how to without being too pushy, and that is or too salesy. Everybody says the word salesy, right, they’re like, Does it sound too salesy? Am I being too salesy, and I hear you, I receive that idea. And that’s kind of the strategy we’re combating today, so to speak.

Karyn Paige 03:36
First of all, whoever coined the term salesy, I hope they get a dime for every time somebody uses that out here in the internet Street, seriously, everybody’s using it. And also, this is also a conversation for people who are like, I don’t know what to say, I want to reach out, but I don’t know, this is for you.

Sam Munoz 03:55
Oh, and one other person this might be for, if you’re someone who does consider yourself a little bit more aggressive in the sales process, you may learn something new today, right? Because what we’re really talking about here are different communication styles. There’s the salesy, pushy communication styles, that’s very, we’re just gonna say it masculine energy, which there’s time and a place for masculine energy. And then on the other side of that you have permission or consent based communication styles, which is much more of feminine energy.

Karyn Paige 04:28
Yeah. Oh, gosh, I love that you pointed it out like this is for someone who might be like, Hey, I don’t have any problem reaching out, like I go out and I get it, or I do whatever I got to do to close the sale. This isn’t a strategy that might get you some more aligned results might prove to be more successful, and also just another way of looking at things and maybe some space for some examination of what you’re currently doing. And maybe why it’s not working. Like if you’re someone who’s like, Yeah, I’m going out. I’m getting in and I’m in Jeff, what I’m still not converting, I’m still not getting sales people are still telling me no or ghosting me, there could be some space for you to explore this new consent based permission based strategy. Absolutely. So you mentioned some styles of sales and marketing can kind of be more masculine, some can be kind of more feminine. So full transparency from a different lens, this permission based strategy, I feel is really rooted in this idea that in our society, people who identify as masculine are really coached and encouraged to just go out, get what you want not really ask for permission, right? And as people who are, you know, socialized women identify very feminine, we’re kind of socialized to not say no, sometimes or not even be asked if we want to say yes, and so there’s this idea of, when you get consent, and you ask for it, and everybody’s on the same page, it can actually eliminate a lot of hurt feelings, a lot of harm, and it can make sure that everybody is getting what they need. And everybody’s on the same page with what’s happening.

Sam Munoz 06:14
Yeah, 100% Karen, and it’s, I’m struck by that term harm, because I’m also thinking about how in the business space, when you’re maybe being pushy and aggressive with how you’re selling, you could potentially be causing harm to the person on the other end of that, you know, there’s new stories that have now been created in their minds about how they experience being sold to, and that to me, like, someone that cares about that kind of stuff, like I don’t want to cause harm to the other person that I’m thinking about speaking with, right? So permission based consent based strategies really does eliminate and eliminates that fear of being pushy. So let’s talk about what it is and kind of give a definition to permission or consent based communication styles and marketing strategies. Basically, it is having the prospect or the client or the person that you’re talking to provide explicit permission before you move forward in the conversation in the sales in the project itself. It’s allowing them to say yes,

Karyn Paige 07:18
yeah. Do you have an example? Maybe that could paint a picture?

Sam Munoz 07:22
Yeah. So I think what can be really helpful is to think about it from the flip side, right to think about, well, what does it look like to not experience something that’s permission based, and I have an example that I’m living right now, literally, my phone is probably blowing up as we speak, I am planning to move. So I put some information into this moving company portal to get some idea of how much something would be right. And no joke. Five minutes after I put my information in there, I started getting text messages and phone calls and emails from people all day long, trying to get me to hire them for their moving company. And not one single person has said, Hi, Sam, how are you? Can I ask you about your moving needs? Right? No one has said that all I’m getting Are these like spam type things like hey, it’s Max from blah, blah, blah, logistics, here’s our quote, here’s our rate. Here’s all the information like you ready to hire us. It’s like, Whoa, I did not consent or give permission to not only like the, you know, the tool behind it, that’s sending out my information, all these people, but I definitely didn’t give these people permission to like, give me quotes and try to sell me on this stuff. And it feels so pushy and so icky. And I will be hiring exactly zero of these companies because of this.

Karyn Paige 08:37
Yes, it’s so in that example, I’m already thinking of so many times in my life where I’ve experienced that. And I’m sure that anyone listening to this podcast, can draw upon their own experiences of something similar. You agreed to one piece of it, like hey, I’m interested. I’d like some more information. And then what ended up happening is that company took away or choice of all the other things and was like, Oh, well, she said yes to this. So I’m gonna take her information and then go crazy. Like coercion tactics, and I’m gonna wear you down and I’m gonna keep calling and keep emailing until I get something from you. Right, right. And that, that is where people feel afraid of looking salesy. All of a sudden, this really, almost like extreme example, like the worst case scenario, somehow informs decisions of how we feel about how we market our businesses, to the simple point where we’re afraid to initiate contact with anybody and say, Hey, I’m a web designer, I’d love to talk to you. Like now that type of communication is almost falsely equivalent to what you’re experiencing with this moving company, right? That’s how we can get to those places.

Sam Munoz 09:52
Or there’s a situation where you’ve been on the receiving end of some sort of sales thing or you’ve seen this is the worst is There’s like a group that you’re in and someone shares a screenshot of like a text that they got or a Facebook message that they got. And it’s putting that person on blast for being too salesy and pushy, and it’s probably not her fault. She probably learned a very pushy business tactic, probably from MLM we have a whole episode on that and how they poison the well, in terms of marketing. I think that that definitely connects to what we’re talking about today. But now you’re afraid oh my gosh, if I go out and put myself out there, and if I go out and ask someone to, you know, if they’re interested in getting on a call with me, maybe I’m being pushy and salesy. The difference is truly the approach, right? It’s not about popping into someone’s DMS, as soon as they follow you on Instagram and saying, hey, you need a new website. Here’s my link, it’s asking for permission to even send the link in the first place. It’s asking for permission to even talk about their business in the first place. So instead of being demanding and pushing them and forcing them to do something and coercing someone and convincing them, and assuming you know, all these things about them, it’s asking them for consent, every step of the way. And that is what we mean by permission and consent based marketing strategies.

Karyn Paige 11:13
Yeah. Really just, you know, put a finer point on it a permission based strategy for marketing conversations, Discovery calls, etc. Feels good. Does it feels good? Yeah. Because the person who is your lead or prospective client, they are giving you the permission, you are receiving it. And everybody is like, we’re all on board with this. One, your leads your prospective clients, they have permission to say no or decline, right? Which is incredibly important. And if they’re saying yes, you know that that was their decision, they they made that choice, right. So you can release yourself of a feeling like you’re taking something or coercing something or persuading, convincing someone, you’re giving them the power to make their own choices. And then when they make a choice in the affirmative, it can feel good for you. Because you know that you came from an intentional place, and the impact that you had was positive.

Sam Munoz 12:19
Right? And that feels nice to because you know that you’re not forcing someone to do something. And you there’s just like a totally different experience when you ask someone, and then they say yes, and then you move forward. You know what I mean? Like it just again, like you said, I can’t I can’t stop thinking about the phrase that you’re using is like, we’re all on the same page. Like we’re all in agreement. It’s full transparency, there is no hidden, nothing hidden behind a curtain, which I feel like when we’re talking about like sales calls and, and like chatting in the DMS, sometimes it can feel very, like the person that’s trying to sell you something is like trying to be shady and sneaky and like say the right thing to like, get you to buy him, or whatever it is, right. Whereas when you’re just talking, you’re asking for permission, you’re saying, Hey, I’m I’m going to go here next. Is that cool with you? Like, Are we cool to go there together? Like I’m not going to pull you across the street? I’m going to ask you if it’s okay, that we walk together across the street. Yeah.

Karyn Paige 13:17
So it eliminates confusion. Yeah, it does. It makes things more transparent. And whenever relationships, dynamics, communication is transparent, it automatically creates like more equity and safety in the dynamic

Sam Munoz 13:33
and trust. Yep, and trust, trust between like in the relationship, immediately you’re building that trust together, you’re consenting, they’re consenting, everybody is in agreement. I love the term equity for that, too, because it’s like, I don’t have more information than you do about what we’re going to go after this in the conversation, or I don’t have more information than you do about, like, what the next steps are. We’re both equally knowledgeable and aware and conscious of the conversation that we’re having together. Yep, that is so important. Like, I just want to pause there for a second. Because if that’s not the types of interactions that you have with prospective clients, if you’re thinking to yourself, oh my gosh, like when I’m talking to clients, like there is a bit of a sheet behind it, or I’m so afraid to even make that initial touch point because I don’t know how to navigate something like that. I just want to let you know that once you start getting into practice of like doing these types of strategies, it does feel good. It feels very effortless because it’s it’s not forcing, right. It’s not trying to force a square peg into a round hole. The thing is a circle, you’re putting it into a circle like we’re all in agreement. It’s a circle. Yeah.

Karyn Paige 14:41
So how do you actually implement a permission based strategy?

Sam Munoz 14:47
Who I would say tip number one, is that the consent, you know, you asking for permission and all of that is continuously happening throughout the conversation throughout the relationship. Throughout the entirety of the experience that you have with this prospect, whether it be on a call on a sales call in the DMS, during a project after a project, you know, as a past client, that consent is continuing. What I mean by that is, you’re always kind of asking before you go a layer deeper, or before you go on to that next phase, you’re always continuously saying, like, Hey, are we good to go here? And we can get into those specifics, but I just wanted to say that right off the bat is like, consent is always continuous. It’s just like, what, you know, the the whole moving company example. It’s like, I gave him consent for that one piece. But no, I didn’t say you could do all these other things. And then those people could do other things. From there. It’s like everybody assumes up. She told us she could do this one. I mean, I can’t not think about our bodies, the reality of like, she said that I could do this, or she was wearing that dress, which gave me you know, to all those like, little like, sprinklings of Well, you got one 100 of permissions. So I guess it’s okay.

Karyn Paige 15:58
Right? Yes, precisely. And then to put it kind of in context of like what we do as web designers talking to potential clients, you know, things like that. The continual consent is like, well, I said, Yes. To you asking me some questions about my website, I did not say yes, for you to send me your discovery calling. I did not say yes, for you to send me a contract.

Sam Munoz 16:19
It’s again, it’s like I wasn’t expecting to go there. It’s like setting like you’re not setting expectations without like communicating that.

Karyn Paige 16:26
Getting one yes, doesn’t give you access to everything about your leads and your prospective clients. permission based strategy is about continually asking if things are okay, continually giving your leads and clients the opportunity to say no, and make their own decisions, opting out, right, but yeah, opting out,

Sam Munoz 16:46
they’re ready to opt out. And that’s okay. I know, that makes me think you know, how the Apple made that big switch with their software, where it’s like, instead of automatically opting you into things, you have to like, intentionally give permission to track, it wasn’t an opt out. Now, it’s an opt in. And I think that that, hey, they’re waking up to this idea that people want the power, right. And just like we can have that power with our phones and our devices, and you know, when we’re on websites and things, we get the opportunity to give a prospective client or a client that we’re already working with, or you know, anyone in business that we’re communicating with, we give them the opportunity to have power. And that is also another like just a benefit. In terms of the strategies to I want to say like, as we’re talking about this, the flip side of the Yes, is getting a no. And so just as a tip, be prepared to honor the know, when you ask someone a question, and they say, No, that’s where you get to practice respecting that boundary that they’ve created. So let’s talk about some specific examples. There’s like three phases where we have strategies for implementing consent based marketing slash conversations. The biggest one, when it comes to marketing is probably those like free client interactions that you have. So enquiries you’re chatting and DMS, you’re just kind of like warming up to each other those initial touch points.

Karyn Paige 18:09
Yeah, absolutely. So this literally looks like leading with questions and asking for permission before going forward. Right. So this could, you know, for example, if you have someone that you see on social media, and you want to send them a direct message, so you can talk to them initiate that interaction with them, that could look like can I ask you some questions about your website? Like very specific?

Sam Munoz 18:35
I love the specificity. Yeah, it’s important, right? It’s not just like, Hey, can I ask you some questions? Like, I would be like, yeah, right. Like about what about when,

Karyn Paige 18:43
like, I’m already on guard, you’re like, can you ask me questions? Like, there’s so many questions you could ask, right? So the specificity and the clarity? Can I ask you some questions about your website, right? Or would it be okay? If I asked you how your website is working for your business? Those are very specific questions where the person reading that receiving that can say, yes, you can, or no thinking I’m not interested. Right. So if someone says, yes, you can ask me questions about my website, then you can continue the conversation from there, right. So what’s happening there is, you’re already just reducing the sales Enos reducing the pushiness, because you’re giving them you’re being very upfront about why you’re engaging in the first place. And then you’re giving them the opportunity to make their own

Sam Munoz 19:37
choice. Yes. And I want to I want to pause here and talk even more in depth about this. Because I know that this is like a sticking point for people is like, how do I initiate conversations with people that I’m interested in working with, right? It’s like I know who my dream client is, right? Have an idea of who my dream client is. I found them on social media or I found them in real life, right? Like I have access to this person right there in front of me in some way. How Do I let them know that I’m there and that I’m available to work with them if they need me, it is not going into their DMS and blasting them with like a five paragraph message about how good you are and how you’re the best client ever. And you would be so amazing, and you’d love to work with them. We get it. But it’s really like, Hi, I’m Sam, lovely to meet you. And then waiting for them to respond. First of all, this is just like straight up a tip, right? Like give someone a chance before you blow up their messages. And then leading with the permission based questions. Can I ask you a little bit about your website, pause, put the phone away, walk away from the phone, do not continue to write something, let them give you permission first. It’s not asking the question then immediately going into the additional questions that you have right, like at every moment, who wait for them to say yes, I think you know, this seems obvious. But I do want to like, say that.

Karyn Paige 20:57
And I’m glad you did. Because it’s very much like less is more in these spaces like livers or like you don’t get to give them five paragraphs. No, no, no, no.

Sam Munoz 21:07
The thing about consent based is that it’s client centered and client led, right? Like it’s you’re letting them take up space. You talked about this before, I can’t even I don’t even remember what podcast episode. I have no idea. But you talked about, like people like to talk about themselves, right? People like the opportunity to tell you about their business. Like, it’s nice to be asked questions when you are? Well, first of all, when you want them right, when you give someone permission to ask you questions, it’s kind of fun to talk about your business, right. And so let them kind of have their moment to tell you things and let them fill in the blanks. It’s like with the discovery call, you’re giving them an opportunity to just talk about their business and dialogue with you. And it can be the same way in the DMS or in a conversation. And it feels really good when everybody’s on that same page about like, we’re talking about my website. She’s not asking me random questions about different things, right? She’s asking me very specifically, can we talk about your website? Can we talk about how your website is working for your business?

Karyn Paige 22:07
Gosh, you You brought up a lot that that made me think of, essentially, when you when you use a permission based strategy, and you do create that space for the client, what’s happening there is you’re letting them know that you care about what they have to say, because the flip side of what you’re saying, I’m going to start with five paragraphs that are all about me and what I can do what I have to offer, were in that type of communication style. Is the client getting space to say, but what about me? Who is this really about? Is this about you? Or is this about me?

Sam Munoz 22:42
Exactly, exactly, which let’s kind of transition then into, like on a discovery call, let’s say. So after you’ve maybe had a DM conversation, email conversation, an in person conversation, now you’re in a phase where you’re talking about potentially working together, right. So in whatever capacity that you do that, and this still falls within like the marketing and sales, it’s important, because this is a part of that process. It’s a part of the marketing, it’s a part of the relationship building. I think the biggest consent based permission based thing that you can do on a call is have some sort of outline. And in our last episode, we talked about how to have a successful discovery call, you know, quote unquote, successful, we talked about an outline. And that can also be connected to consent based communication, because you can have your outline right. Got this, you know, maybe like a few things. We’re going to talk about your business, we’re going to talk about what you’re looking for, in your website, your goals. Does that sound okay to you? Are you okay with us talking about that on this call? That is consent based instead of again, that whole idea of just like dragging someone where you want to take them, you’re saying this is the map, this is the plan? Are we good? We’re good to go there.

Karyn Paige 23:49
I can already feel the relaxation setting into my nervous system, because it’s like, okay, I signed up for this 30 minute call. And I have absolutely no idea what’s going to happen in those 30 minutes that too. And yeah, and now I know, in the first few minutes of that call time, what I can expect over the next 30 minutes. And now it already I’m like, You got my permission. That sounds good to me. And now I know what to expect. And I’m not afraid,

Sam Munoz 24:14
especially because I think people go on to discovery calls, sometimes expecting to be like hard sold to that part. And if you say it right off the bat, like at the end of the call like you maybe you say this in the outline discussion, maybe not. But you could even say like at the end of this, if this feels like a good fit, we can talk about me sending you a proposal after the call. And then it’s like full expectations, like Does that sound okay to you? So that’s the outline

Karyn Paige 24:37
part. Gosh, I just want to sit with that for just a second because I’m like how incredibly good with that feel for everybody. It takes the pressure off you you don’t have to close takes the pressure off of your client because they’re not forced into feeling like they have to give you a credit card number after 30 minutes like all of that. That’s where it goes back to this idea that it feels good for everybody. Oh yeah, he’s on the same page. Everybody can relax and move forward in the process.

Sam Munoz 25:03
Another part of being on the call with someone you know, you’ve talked about the outline, they have an idea of where you’re going. And then we get into a phase of the discovery call process where we’re talking about their business, right? You may be asking questions about like, what are your goals? What do you desire for your website? Can you tell me a little bit more about this? Can you tell me a little bit more about that? That’s how I like to phrase the questions is like, Would it be okay, if I asked you about, you know, how many clients you might serve? Or may ask you a question about like, your team? Do you? Is it just you? Or do you have multiple people on your team? May I ask you a question about x? permission? And then proceed with the question, because again, again, that idea of like, just because you got permission before the call doesn’t mean that on the call, you have full openness to their business and every intricate detail of their business.

Karyn Paige 25:55
I love this part. Right? So this is the idea of one Yes. Doesn’t mean access to everything like they could give you Yes. To tell you, you know, in my business, I serve about 20 clients a year. And then the next question is, Oh, can you tell me how much revenue you generate from that? Is it okay, if

26:11
I know how much money you make? That answer could be a no, yeah. No, you can’t? No, no. Ask me another question. Let’s move on, you know,

Sam Munoz 26:20
again, that’s honoring the no to like, if they don’t want to go, they’re honoring and respecting that. You gave them permission to say, No, I’m reading this was it a parenting book that I read, or maybe an article, it was just about talking to your children in different ways than like forcing them to do things? So instead of like, stop doing that, or come here and do this, it’s honestly permission based? You know, it’s like, can you help me with this? And it says in there, be prepared for the know, they have the option to say no, and in doing that, you’re empowering your children to make their own decisions. And I love that that like, came full circle with the business stuff and the permission based selling and all of that, because it was like, You know what, it does feel good. When she says, yes, my daughter says yes to doing something because she wants to or because I’ve taught her that that’s valuable, or whatever it is. Everybody feels good about it. We’re all on the same page. So it’s just interesting how you know, that all connects.

Karyn Paige 27:13
It is interesting. It’s that is a super deep realization, because now here we are, as millennials, Gen Xers, Gen Z’s extra Gen Z’s are a little bit more conservative. But like millennials, Gen X baby boomers, we weren’t raised with that kind of consent based parenting style. So it’s no wonder that here we are, as full adults lay not really feeling empowered to use permission based communication styles or be on the receiving end of permission based, right. So it Yeah, it’s true and business true and live.

Sam Munoz 27:46
That’s why we talked about that in the beginning, that idea that it like almost could feel for and like a foreign concept of like, what is this? What does this look like? The last part that I wanted to mention about being on the call and asking for consent is asking for consent to send the proposal. I love this part. Most of the time, you know, you’ve just had a 30 minute call with someone, they asked all the questions that they wanted to ask about their business, you in a permission based way ask question about their business, you got all the answers, you needed to make a proposal. I love asking, Hey, so now that we talked, would you like me to put together a proposal for what we discussed today? I mean, I’ve never had someone say no, from like, like, Would you like me to put together a proposal after that whole conversation? Right? But I love when they say yes. And they’re like, Oh, yes, of course. It’s like an excited Yes. Right. Like they’re excited to say yes to getting that proposal, because I think it’s that phrasing, right. It’s like, yeah, like, that sounds good. And then again, it’s clarifying their next steps and all those other like business side things, but you’re giving them permission to say, Yeah, I’m interested. Yes, I’d like to do that. Yes,

Karyn Paige 28:57
you’re also giving them permission to walk away from the call, knowing that they still have space and time to think things over in the next phase, right. So this is an opportunity on a discovery call for you to really set the stage of what it’s like to work with you. Right. So if you’re on the call for 1530 minutes, whatever, and it’s all been permission based. You’re letting the client know that this type of communication style will continue. If we’re a client, like you will get all of these opportunities to speak your voice, make decisions have personal agency the whole way through the process,

Sam Munoz 29:33
like so now we’re talking about them being a client, right? So that model is not how every web designer and developer operates. There have been so many past clients that have shared with us. You know, I had a web designer or developer that I worked with in the past and they never even taught me how to use my website. I don’t even have login access. I have to ask them for everything and then they just disappeared one day, that kind of stuff. is taking someone’s power away. And I also feel like it is connected to running this permission based style business with your clients having that kind of like peer to peer relationship, right? Where you’re asking them for permission about the behind the scenes of their business, as you’re moving through the project, you’re discussing with them, what’s going to happen next? Is that okay with you, here’s some of the power back. Because if you think about it, them hiring you in the first place, it gives up a little bit of their power, because they have to kind of say, you know, I don’t know how to do this web design and development stuff. So I’m going to hand the keys to you, and I’m going to trust you. And when we’re done working together, I’d like to get some of that back soon. I mean, and that’s why, you know, creating video tutorials for your clients, and all those things I feel like gives them their power back to,

Karyn Paige 30:46
there are so many opportunities inside of a project for permission based communication to continue. Right, in your checking calls, very similar to discovery calls, like, you know, you can use the same approach. Here’s what we’re going to talk about today on the call. Does that sound okay? Like? This is what I wanted to show you. How does that sound? What do you think? Are we good to move on, like all of that stuff, and thinking about those experiences that past clients may have had with other web designers. I mean, there are people out there who don’t even ask for permission on what the design looks like, or before launching it, or before launching it. Right? So again, this very client centered approach, letting someone make decisions and feel safe, and feel like their voice is being heard, like, there are so many opportunities throughout the entire relationship that you have from lead to client to offboarding, where you can infuse permission based communication strategies.

Sam Munoz 31:47
Absolutely, this is connected to a higher level client experience, because it’s not just about that transaction of the website, it is the transformation, it is the giving them their power back through what you’re building for them and with them. And just that I feel like you create a dynamic with them through this type of communication that is different than like one person is in control. And the other person is just being led. It’s collaborative, it’s co created. And I feel like it allows them to take more ownership over what you’ve created with them and for them.

Karyn Paige 32:19
Yes, and all of that what you just said that transformation versus transaction, the way that they feel in that project, once they are no longer your client or or once that project is over. That is the type of experience that they are going to share with others. Oh, yeah. And say when I worked with this web designer, it was incredible. I felt so taken care of I felt seen I felt heard every step of the way. I knew it was happening. It was amazing. It was so worth every penny. I can’t say enough good things about this web designer. It’s almost like, I don’t want to say duh, but like Hello, like you have created this incredible experience. It’s very, like there’s this idea of like campsite when it comes to a relationship where you want to leave something better than you found it right. So you know that you can walk away from this project, or you can close it out. And everybody feels like they don’t have any regrets. They don’t feel like they were taken advantage of right. And so that actually creates an opportunity not only for things like testimonials or referrals, it also creates opportunity for that client to come back and say I love what we did together on this one project. I want to work with you again because I know that I’m going to be seen and heard. I’m going to have opportunities to use my voice be empowered, say no if needed, and you’re going to be okay with that. Like let’s do this again.

Sam Munoz 33:48
Oh, you said that perfectly. If you are listening to this episode and you’re thinking to yourself, hmm, sometimes I do feel pushy. Sometimes I do feel salesy. I don’t feel super confident going out and initiating conversations because I’m afraid of those things, anything like that. Definitely consider the areas where you can add these consent based practices in next time you go to tell someone something, ask them first. Right? Just super simple and this can be applied in your personal life as practice and in your business. I love that idea of just like the next DM conversation you have with someone and you feel that urge to tell them about what you do, but maybe you’re afraid to do it because you don’t want to feel salesy or your natural inclination would be to just like spew it all out, maybe pause and just say, Would it be okay if I asked you blah, blah, blah. Wait for the answer. If it’s a yes, then move forward.

Karyn Paige 34:46
Yeah. Okay. So I love this idea of like, notice where you are and see where you can infuse some more permission based consent based strategies into your communication style. And also notice where you can have that in your brain Personal life in your business life with people you’re collaborating with. Notice when people are initiating contact with you, if they are coming from a permission based place, and if not know that you have the power to create that to stop and say, Hey, I didn’t sign up for this, I didn’t ask for this, I don’t feel comfortable with that. Or if we’re going to work together in a collaborative experience, this is where I’m coming from, this is what I’m going to need, right? So it definitely goes both ways. permission based, is for everybody.

Sam Munoz 35:30
Oh, I love that I love when our episodes can tie in those strategy things, all of the things that are happening in the mind, and the opportunities to heal, relationships that we might be having with other people or experiences that we’ve had, that have made us feel like our power was taken away or that you know, we didn’t have consent. I love that, that what we’re talking about can be so specific, and then can really be broadened because all of these things are connected. And I say that to my therapist all the time, right? I’m like so much is connected business life, parenting, just being a human having a partner all these things and so hopefully, listening to today’s episode, you feel inspired to walk away and live out some more consent based practices in general.

Karyn Paige 36:14
Yeah, thanks for listening. Oh, oh, oh, before we go, permission based, connects to gratitude. When someone says yes. Say thank you