Sam Munoz 00:00
Hey there. So before we get into this episode, instead of giving you a little teaser, we actually wanted to come in and not really give a disclaimer, but just kind of preface the conversation with a couple notes. Because this one ended up being quite deep. A lot of mindset discussion, a lot of you know, personal stories, anecdotes, and things like that. And we just wanted to come in and say a little something before we get into the episode.

Karyn Paige 00:30
Yeah, we’ve actually recorded the full episode, and then really felt like we wanted to preface it by just being gentle and saying, this is a conversation that has been on our hearts and our minds. And we hope that you enjoy it, and also the person who needs to hear this conversation is out there. And yeah, everything’s coming from a loving place.

Sam Munoz 00:50
Yes, so important. And I really would encourage you to listen through to the end, because we, you know, towards the middle, we have more frank discussions, and also just kind of really dig into ideas of fear, and commitment, and all these different life circumstances. But at the end, I think we really leave you with a positive, uplifting, encouraging message. And so that’s our little preface to the episode. Enjoy. Welcome to making website magic where we empower women to step boldly into their web design, businesses follow their intuition and claim the success they’re worthy of. I’m Sam Munoz.

Karyn Paige 01:34
And I’m Karyn page, where the tech wizards behind Sam Munoz consulting on the making website, Magic School of Business. We’re two women here to talk about what it actually takes to run a web design business that’s aligned with your vision.

Sam Munoz 01:47
Spoiler alert, it probably isn’t what you think it is ready to hear about everything from refining your business vision, networking with intention and creating a magical client experience. Let’s do it. Hello there, Karyn. Hi, Sam. Hi, how you doing?

Karyn Paige 02:07
I’m doing great. It was just love sitting down podcast. It’s always so fun always brings me joy. So yeah, I’m excited to be here. How are you?

Sam Munoz 02:15
I’m with you on that I love sitting down and doing the podcast I love when we get to have the conversations that we are honestly always having all the time continuously behind the scenes and then have them on the podcast and share them with everyone. And today we’re talking about do you even want to be hired? And Karyn just brought up this great point that all of our titles are very, you know, we have a lot of capitalization, we’ve got a lot of extra Annunciation. It’s fabulous. And so really, truly read that title. Do you even want to be hired? That’s the conversation?

Karyn Paige 02:46
Yes. And this is an exciting conversation to have? Because it’s a great question. Again, it’s like a conversation that I think we need to have, because I feel like you just need to say the thing,

Sam Munoz 02:57
right? I agree. So before we get into that, as always, we’d like to read reviews from the podcast. Now if you’ve been an avid listener of the podcast, and you haven’t taken a couple minutes to leave a review, we would super appreciate it love seeing the impact that the podcast episodes are having on you. And of course, as you know, leaving a review does allow us to be seen by other people who need to hear our message. So this review says, I’m not a web designer, but I do have a client centered business. The idea is that Sam and Karyn speak on in this podcast absolutely apply to you if your business model is more one to one than one to many. I’m also a big fan of keeping my business operations simple and aligned with my goals and values. Just like these two fine, intelligent and savvy business people definitely subscribe to this one exclamation point. Now I love that that’s so good for this episode, because I think that what we’re going to be talking about is not at all specific to web designers and developers necessarily. We’re talking about do you even want to be hired? And you own some sort of service providing business? Right?

Karyn Paige 03:55
Yeah. So just that question Do I even want to be hired is so like, Why? Why do we even need to ask this question in the first place, right? Because the assumption is if you start a business, the intention is get hired get clients,

Sam Munoz 04:11
right. But what we’re seeing, we’re observing that women want things, right, they want more clients, they want more money, they want to have thriving, successful businesses. And these are things that they share as goals or things that they desire, yet the daily actions that they’re taking aren’t necessarily lining up with their overarching goals. And that is causing a bit of a conflict, right? Because it’s like, do you even want to be hired if you’re not doing the things required to be hired? Saying you want something but then not being willing to do what’s required to get you there really starts to conflict.

Karyn Paige 04:44
Yeah, it’s like you say you want something and then the logical follow through is okay, well then go do this thing. But then you’re like, but I don’t want to do this thing. That’s that conflict of the saying the doing the actions. It’s not all really lining up, right. And it’s again, it’s like remember, like, you You get to decide what your goals are. But if you’ve decided them, but you’re just not doing what you need to do to get there, are you really committed to those goals that you’ve decided for yourself?

Sam Munoz 05:12
That’s right. I think I feel like another way to think about this question is, How bad do you want it? How bad? Do you want to reach your goals? You know, how much do you want this? Is this something that’s just for fun? Is this, you know, a hobby? I don’t agree with this idea of like, we get to define that someone is a hobby business, if they’re like, under a certain income threshold. I don’t agree with that at all. I think it’s more of a mindset thing of how are you approaching your business? Are you approaching it like a business and creating business goals around said business? And then moving forward into those goals? By your daily actions? by the things that you decide on a daily basis? Or are you kind of just like, like a jellyfish, I always use this analogy in my personal life when I feel like purposeless, I’m like, I feel like I’m just floating along. Like that’s kind of how it is in business. If like, you don’t really have that motivation, that fire that, like how bad do you actually want the thing that you say that you want? Because if you really, really want it, I 100% believe that you can get hired. So do you even really want to be hired in the first place? Oh, wow.

Karyn Paige 06:21
Like, this is a really deep topic. I’m just gonna say it because like, my wheels are turning, I’m thinking lots of things you spoke on, like, How bad do you really want to and I started thinking of, you know, like athletes or actors, or stand up comedians, who are, they’re like, I want this so bad, that I will go out. And I will do it every day, like I will practice twice a day, or I like, haven’t really talked about this on the show, but I love stand up comics. And there, hear them talk about how like, they would just go to any open mic, wherever it was, it could be in a laundromat, but they just have this desire to work on their craft and find the gigs and do the things and blah, blah, blah, right? And so that idea of like, how badly do you want it when you really committed to it and you’re like, this is my goal, I’m going to see this through, he start taking actions to move towards it. And sometimes it feels like I know, for me personally, there have been other career paths in my life where I was, like, curious and maybe dabbled in it. But turns out, I actually didn’t really want it that bad. So that’s why I didn’t end up finding the success. That seemed like a good idea or seemed like this cool, like fantasy or whatever. So the idea of like, really asking yourself, like, how badly do you want this thing to happen? It opens up a lot of a lot of underlying things, too, you know? And I think sometimes when it’s like, Okay, well, why don’t we want to do what’s required? Why? Why don’t we want to go after it and get it. And many of the conversations we’ve had on this podcast, I think the underlying thing is really like the fear of what’s on the other side.

Sam Munoz 07:57
Yeah, whether that be like the fear that you could succeed, the fear that it could fail the fear of all these different things. And yes, we’ve talked about this, this is like, become a category of conversations that we’ve been having on the podcast, it’s come up so much, I think Episode Five, fear of discovery calls Episode 10 value of vulnerability Episode 15, owning your space equals confidence, the idea that we have fear there is underlying fear, that’s just a part of the business. And that’s the genetic makeup of owning a business. And being an entrepreneur is this underlying fear, and having to move through it as a thing that is required to do to reach the goals. And something that you were just talking about is I really want to put a fine point on this getting what you want, wanting to be hired, succeeding and all your business goals does not mean you have to kill yourself with working right. You don’t have to work for hours and work for days and work forever. But it is just like, Am I willing to do what’s required? Am I willing to move through the fear, right? Am I willing to you know, charge a higher price point, so I don’t have to work a bunch. And so I can get hired by the right client. It’s not necessarily like we are not advocating for like, now you need to go out and work like 100 hour work weeks to get what you want. And if you’re not doing that, then like you don’t even deserve to be running this business. That is not what we’re saying. What we’re saying is there are things that we don’t want to do that are required to be done in order to get hired in general. And I think that that is very, very important that we say that. And then speaking about this idea of fear, it’s like, oh, there’s so much there’s so much fear involved,

Karyn Paige 09:32
you’re so right, because all of those analogies that I used before, those are all a lot of those scenarios that I’m thinking of those are actually like there’s a lot of compulsion in there. You know, so it’s like people who are like, I will sacrifice everything in my life to make this work and I might be eating Top Ramen every day because I’ve just I don’t have friends or partners or anything because they’re just so laser focused on this one thing like absolutely not not talking about that but I am talking about like, just The level of saying I want to do this thing and I want to see it through, I will take actions to make sure that that’s happening. But like, I think the key there that I was trying to get at is just like the motivation is really clear, like the commitment. Oh, yes, really clear.

Sam Munoz 10:14
But that’s the thing, too, is like the fear part is a part of all of this. So I feel like that’s why it’s important to like, address that right off the top, that there’s a lot of reasons that we give ourselves to not want to do something because we’re afraid we’re afraid of, I was just talking to my therapist about this, actually, because I struggle with anxiety. And I was like, I find myself avoiding opportunities, because I’m afraid of feeling anxious about it. She’s like, that’s not how we get through it. We got to like, move through the anxiety, but also like that is all coming from a root fear place, right? So there’s that emotion, right? So let’s just keep this over here. Let’s just put a little pin in this. And then when we’re talking about like, not having enough purpose, or motivation or fuel in your fire, fear is still going to be sitting over here, right? But it’s really a question of is what you want your goals. That’s why it’s so important to figure out what your goals are and why they’re important to you not just like pulling them out of the sky or pulling them from like the last influencer, you scrolled past on Instagram are your goals connected to whatever purpose that you have, whether that be to make a bunch of money, or to have some impact in your business, where’s the purpose and that motivation, because there might be something lacking in that department that is not helping you get to the goals that you want, it is not helping you go out and get hired. And it really is a time to ask yourself, do I even want this? Like, do I even want to be hired as a web designer or developer? Like how big is my motivation here?

Karyn Paige 11:36
Yeah, when I think about motivation, I immediately go to what is it? Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, the basic needs that you have to survive. The most basic level level one is like food, shelter, safety. And so you have to secure these things in order to focus on other areas, right. So a strong motivation for getting hired might be I need to pay my rent, or I have children, I have to feed or I have a car, no, or I have to pay off my credit card debt. Like that is a strong motivation to start asking people to get on Discovery calls, or start putting out your discovery called link, or start letting anybody and everybody that, you know, telling them, Hey, I’m building websites, and I’m trying to get hired, I’m looking for work, I have these skills, right, because you need to secure that level one of your needs. And so let’s say that all of that is secure, you know where your next rent check or like mortgage payment is coming from, like, you don’t have a lot of debt, maybe you don’t have kids that you need to feed in, it’s just you or there’s another source of income in your household. So if you don’t have a source of income, you’re still going to be okay. Like all of a sudden, there’s, there’s a little bit less motivation to go put yourself out there and go after and get the thing, right. And I’m speaking to this, like, from personal experience, like I know what it’s like to have a safety net that has made me feel comfortable. So maybe it’s like, there wasn’t as much fuel under my fire to be like, I need to go get it today. Like I need to go secure a deposit today. Because if I don’t, there’s nobody else to rely on, right, like so I’m literally like, I understand where someone can be like, I don’t really, I’m not that motivated to go out and get it because I’m good. Like, I’m not worried. Or if this thing doesn’t work out, I can just go get a job somewhere else, I’ve got this whole other like career path that I can go down if I want it to. So I

Sam Munoz 13:37
think it’s really important to say this, too, that it’s not a negative. If you have those things, right, if you have the safety net, as we’ve referred to it, or you have things that make you feel comfortable, where you don’t feel like you have to take that initiative and go out and get hired, right. But that also might be a reality, you might have things that are like very tangible motivation and purposes like that, where you do have bills to pay and things like that. And I think that increases and heightens that initiative and makes you even more fired up to go out and get what you want. But then let’s say those basic needs are met, how do we like pull purpose and motivation from other sources, right, that aren’t from the basic needs, because at some point, we all want to get to the place where we have, whether it’s that we’ve created those safety nets for ourselves within our business, because we’ve done whatever has been required, or they are already built into our life. How do we create purpose and motivation for ourselves and add fuel to our fire beyond the basic needs that make us want to go out and get hired because that is a blocker? Karyn, like you said it perfectly. Like, if you don’t want to go get the thing, then you’re just gonna be like, I won’t send that email. Like, I’ll just I’ll just wait around for another one. And this is really, really, really tied to this idea of I mean, I’m just going to call it like prayerful inaction is the best way I can say it, where you’re like, I’m like a I’m a Christian. So like I pray to God. And you know, I asked for things and you know, I say all of my prayers and such And I think it’s really important that I not only pray for what I want, but pray for what I need to get myself to where I want to go, if that makes sense. So I’m not just like maybe you shared this with McCarran. So hopefully I can, I can share it on the podcast. But it’s like this idea of like someone sitting on top of their house, and there’s a flood and the water’s rising, and they’re sitting there praying and you know, praying to God, you know, come save me, come save me. And they’re waiting for God to just like, literally like, swoop and pick them up and move them somewhere else. But what’s happening is there’s canoes going by, and they’re just like, Hey, you know, I’m waiting for God, don’t Don’t worry about me, I’ll be fine. God will get me. And the canoes just continue to pass by. But it’s like, Hello, maybe God sent the canoe friend. And so it’s just like, do you want to be aware of what’s happening? And like, go out and get the thing that you want? Or do you want to like sit and wait for it just like those analogies. We’ve used? Like, I’m sitting in my office and like, hopefully, someone will find me. And I think there’s a different level of motivation in those two different types of people. There’s the person that’s going and getting it because they’re motivated. They have fuel in their fire. And then there’s the person that’s like, maybe, do I want to be hired on numero uno?

Karyn Paige 16:06
Yeah, even we have already thinking about that analogy of like, going to the high school dance, and then sitting on the bleachers. It’s like waiting for your crush to come ask you to dance. It’s like, Go ask them to dance, like, show up and do the thing. But like, yes, again, to your point. Sometimes there are lots of opportunities that are coming our way. But it’s like you’re missing them. Because you kind of can’t see the forest for the trees. It’s like I’m saying, hey, do you see that forest over there? and somebody’s like, no, there’s all these trees in the way.

Sam Munoz 16:37
That’s what that expression means. I never

Karyn Paige 16:39
understand the forest because for the trees, it’s like, that’s it. That’s the thing. It’s right there. And the analogy of sitting on your roof while there’s a flood and the waters rising. And people keep coming by with canoes asking you Hey, do you need help? Hey, I’ve got this thing, hey, hey, I’m here. I’m here. I’m here. And you’re like, No, I’m waiting for I’m waiting. It reminds me of like that other Barbra Streisand quote that I pulled from another podcast episode where it’s like, at the moment of commitment, the universe will work to assist you. And so it’s like, if you’re committed to this thing, saying, I’m out here and I want to get hired, and you start taking inspired action moving in that direction. And then the universe is like, Oh, I see. Sam McCarran are out here trying to get it and they’re moving towards it. So I’m gonna like, I’m gonna like add a little juice to it, like I see that they’re trying to like they’re pushing the buttons, they’re pulling the levers, there’s this big gadget that’s required to like, make their dream come true. Because it’s a pretty big dream, right? Like having your own business that’s successful on your terms. That’s pretty big dream. So it requires a lot of effort, action, but like, when you commit to it, and I firmly believe this, like when you are like, I’m gonna really do this thing, I’m motivated, I’m moving in the direction, universe, God, whatever your higher sources would be like, Okay, this person is out here trying to get it, let me support them, and get it help them get it. So all of a sudden, it’s like that big gadget with all those buttons and levers and things that you got to operate to make it work, it starts firing, right, it’s help and there’s all these things coming. So it’s like part of it is being motivated. Part of it is like the commitment, the inspired action, and then things really do start falling into place to make it so. And it’s not just you or your own.

Sam Munoz 18:30
We are talking to women right now, if you’re listening to this episode, you are someone who has decided that they want this right. So there’s like the underlying assumption that you have already decided that you want to run a business. So it really is you getting committed to that goal. And you know, for yourself, like check in with yourself right now, you know, for yourself when you are fully committed to something and when you are halfway in halfway out. And to your point about like the universe and all these other things. If you’re halfway in if you’re 50% committed like is that? Is that true commitment? You know, are you truly are you truly invested in your business and I think I can’t remember what episode it was of the podcast that we talked about this about like treating your business like a baby or like treating your business like this thing that is really important to you. It wasn’t when we were talking about investing, treating your business like something that is sacred, almost right, like this thing that you’re creating, like you love it, you put energy into it, and you commit to it 110% now that does not mean that every day has to be hard. It doesn’t mean that every day has to be like pulling teeth, it doesn’t mean that every day has to be an uphill battle. It doesn’t mean that you have to hate every moment of it or has to be hard and all these other things. But it means that you’re in it. You trust and believe in what you’re creating. And when you start to do that when you start to show up committed, you will answer the question Do I even want to be hired with a heck yes, I want to be hired. I’m showing up every single day. And I am being consistent and I’m learning what I have to learn to make this business work. I’m cultivating my skills. I am, you know, learning the business side so that I can show up to a discovery call and show why I’m so good at what I do why I’m so passionate about it. Like, you don’t want to show up to the to a discovery call not knowing the answer to this question of do you even want to be hired? Because like, what if your client asked you that question? Like, you sound like, you’re great. Like, you sound like you got the skills, but like, do you even want this? I mean, honestly, like, do you even want that?

Karyn Paige 20:22
Oh, gosh, this is immediate room thinking, that person wouldn’t even have gotten on the Discovery call yet. Because there’s a lot of things that need to happen prior to getting on a call where they’re even in that situation, right. And like, there’s something that just that I was just reminded of, and it reminds me of like this lack of commitment, right? And this the saying that you want something and then literally in the next turn not doing the thing that’s going to get you closer to it like the conflicting thoughts of that. Okay, so I’m reminded of somebody that I used to know, in my 20s, who was like, I’m a singer. That is what I do. You ask her, what do you do? I say, Okay, great. And one night, we were at a bar that had an open mic, and we knew the people who were the band, and they knew that she was a singer, they knew what her favorite song was, and they started playing it. Not only did she not take the mic and sing her favorite song like she was, it was that thing the universe will work to assist you, they were setting it up, set up t out of the park, not only did she not take the opportunity to sing, she actually ran into the bathroom and hid she ran past the band into the bathroom that was behind them and hid. That is what I mean about conflicting ideas. You say you want this thing you say you are this thing. And then when the opportunity is there sitting for you on a platter, the fear overcomes you and you’re like, Nah, I can’t, I’m going to literally hide like that is what I’m talking about and have conflicting ideas. So it’s either you stop saying that this is who I am, and this is what I want. And you are like, okay, great hiding is the thing. Or you say I am this thing. And when the opportunity comes to you, you take it and you shine really, really brightly. Right. And so like overall, like just like the meta of the conversation that we’re having, it is really provocative, and it does bring up a lot of things and it might sting a little bit. And it might bring up some some triggers. But that’s real, because this is like we’re not playing here. This is not house this is not dress up, right. Like this is real talk. Like another analogy. My favorite thing about camping is not camping. My favorite thing about camping is setting up the camp and breaking down the camp. Okay, and then all the time in between, I’m like, what, what is this? This is not fun. This is not what I thought it was gonna be. So sometimes I’m like, in bringing it back to the web design in the actions and maybe getting distracted and things like that. It’s like, are you spending all of your time setting up the the camp of your business, setting up the tent, picking the color for the Tat, like, are you? Are you doing all of these fun things. And then once that’s all done, you’re just there that actually makes me think of like shiny object syndrome, right? Like all of these things that we want to do that’s pulling us and distracting us from the commitment of getting hired, having clients generating revenue. It’s like, there’s all these shiny things, right? We talked about this another on another podcast. Like if I just read you spend a little bit more time on my website, if I just spend a little bit more time on my copywriting if I just like do a little bit more like lurking market research and all of these things that are literally distracting you from the obvious answer, which is go talk to people, cultivate your skills, practice, being on Discovery calls, send out invitations, even if you’re afraid that they’re going to say no, because you have to refine your pitch like all of these things, those are the easy things to do. And that’s if you just do that the work will come and you will never have to worry about finding because you will trust that it’s there. But instead of that there’s all these shiny things that you’re distracted by, that are keeping you in setting up your camp mode so that you don’t have to be camping. And again, it’s like the conflicting thoughts. What do you want? Are you doing anything to get to what you want, even when the opportunities are being delivered to you? And you’re saying no, thank you this this is this is not for me. I’m gonna pass this by like if this resonates with you at all, my dear, my dear, my dear. Why? Because there are literally a lot of other options for you. And so it’s like, well, I don’t want to do this, but I do want to do this. But in order to do the thing that I want to do, I have to do some things that make me feel uncomfortable. Make me feel afraid. It’s like that’s a lot of mental gymnastics.

Sam Munoz 24:35
Yeah, no, I don’t even have anything else to add to what you said. I think that you explain that perfectly. Really? are you setting up cam? are you focusing on all these different random things? Or are you showing up committed? Are you saying you want clients you want this business and are you saying but I don’t want this I love that that honestly the whole idea of conflicting thoughts and like wanting something but then not if someone told You literally all you have to do is do this one thing you’re like, but I don’t want to do that one thing it’s like, then you didn’t really want the thing that you wanted. Hmm. So great, great, great point, why don’t we do it, why we don’t do what’s required. I think like, even in your examples, a lot of it is the fear. But it’s also that lack of full 110% commitment to the goals that you have.

Karyn Paige 25:23
There’s one other piece that I want to say, too, because I really do understand, I really have been there. And I do understand what it’s like to say you want something and then not go do the thing, because you’re afraid. And I want to put this out there like, at what point are you the person who’s writing your own story, and you’re like, the main character of my story doesn’t want to be afraid the main character of my story wants to be brave. I want to be very gentle with this, because I don’t want it to sound at all like gaslighting. I don’t want it to sound at all, like their experiences maybe you’ve had in your life where you it didn’t work out and you did feel there was a reason to want to protect yourself from the fear, right? But like real talk in service and an honor of like, you get to decide, you get to change your mind. You get to create your goals. Like it’s, it’s what you want it to be, you also get to be the writer of your own narrative. And if you want your narrative to be, I’m afraid of doing this thing, even though I really want it. That’s totally up to you. But you can also decide to say that narrative has not been working for me. Oh, yeah. And I want to try something new, then then that’s up to you as well.

Sam Munoz 26:32
I love that. I think that honestly, I feel like that’s where we should leave this episode. Like, think about that. And I’m going to do the same. because like you said, we’re coming from this also from a place of having these exact experiences ourselves. And it is interesting to think about, like, what are the things in my life that I’m saying that I want? But I’m not willing to do? What’s required to get me there? And is that coming from a place of fear? Is that coming from a place of a lack of commitment? Is it because those things that I’m saying that I want aren’t even aligned? Why am I saying that I want something, but then not doing it? And then of course asking yourself, do you even want to be hired and really thinking about that

Karyn Paige 27:10
also, just I want to leave you with this to like, you are safe, you are safe to take initiative, you are safe to do that. Even if it doesn’t work, you’re safe, and you’re going to be okay. And whatever baby step you need to take to help you feel safe. Like I don’t want you to go out and like stretch beyond your comfort zones and feel like salmon. Karyn told me that I’m safe. So I’m going to go like talk to a bunch of people. And then and then I feel like I need to curl up in a ball afterwards. No, no, no, no, no, no, it’s okay to take baby steps, it’s okay to make one inspired action, and see how that works. And know that even if it doesn’t give you the outcome that you thought it would, you’re gonna be okay, like you really, really well. And you might find that it wasn’t as scary as you thought it was going to be and that you enjoy doing it and that the outcome was amazing. And therefore you’re more motivated to continue taking those actions. But you honestly will never know if you don’t take any action at all. So again, it’s up to you, you get to decide you get to design, what that safety looks like for you. Even if it’s just telling your friends ham doing this and telling your one bestie Hey, I’m doing this thing now. And I actually need help because it’s a little bit more than I thought it was gonna be. But I really want to make this happen. Like that is enough. You can go from there, you can stretch your capacity a little bit more, a little bit more get a little bit stronger every day. We’re just talking about lifting two pound weights. We’re not talking about lifting 10 pound weights yet, but you can get there but you have to start and you have to say this is the thing that I really want and I’m going to go for it and you’re safe to do it. You just Are you are in whatever that looks like for you.