Sam Munoz 00:00
there’s reasons why we’re embarrassed, right? We’ve touched on one of them is that maybe you think you’re an amateur, maybe you think you’re not as good as other people. And again, leaning into the idea that we all have our own points of view, we all have our own reasons behind the choices we make on our website, you know, for why we put this here and why we make those choices for our clients. And like, we all have our own uniqueness to us. And that’s what makes us special and makes us distinguished from other people in our industry. So what if instead of saying I’m an amateur and other people’s work is better than mine, you do two things, you one commit to continuous improvement. And then the other thing is, what if you let go of this idea of being an amateur and you just leaned into the skills that you do have, and you decided, this is enough, my perspective is good enough. Welcome to making website magic where we empower women to step boldly into their web design, businesses follow their intuition and claim the success they’re worthy of. I’m Sam Munoz.

Karyn Paige 01:00
And I’m Karyn page, where the tech wizards behind Sam Munoz consulting on the making website Magic School of Business. We’re two women here to talk about what it actually takes to run a web design business that’s aligned with your vision.

Sam Munoz 01:13
Spoiler alert, it probably isn’t what you think it is ready to hear about everything from refining your business vision, networking with intention and creating a magical client experience. Let’s do it. Hey, Karyn. Hey, Sam. I am feeling kind of nervous about this topic for today, actually. How do you feel?

Karyn Paige 01:39
I feel fine. I feel great, because I live in this space. So should we talk about the topic? Or should we talk about why you are feeling what you’re feeling about the topic?

Sam Munoz 01:50
Okay, well, the topic of today is being embarrassed of your own website as a web designer. And I will say currently, I do not feel embarrassment over my website. But I’ve had I have experienced that in the past. And I know what that feels like to feel afraid to, like send people or feel amateurish, or whatever the case may be. And I know that this is gonna be a topic that probably a lot of listeners resonate with. And I think it’s a really important one to have. Because we’re web designers and developers like this is what we do. So if we feel embarrassment over our craft, what does that mean? So I know this is going to be an intense topic. But before we get into that, can we read a review of the making website magic podcast as kind of a way to celebrate before we get into this more intense topic? Yeah, go for it. Cool. So first of all, thank you so much to everyone who has been leaving reviews about the podcast, we read every single one. And it has been such a joy knowing that the podcast is influencing you and helping you think deeper about topics, you know, sometimes we keep it more lighthearted and more tactical. And then other times like today, they are deeper. So I am so glad that you appreciate all of these conversations. So this one says so excited. It’s about time that someone made a podcast for women in web design, I can’t wait to listen in and get a fresh perspective. Looking forward to the next one. Awesome. Today, we are definitely giving a fresh perspective and good ideas and thoughts on this very interesting topic. So thanks again for that review. So appreciate it.

Karyn Paige 03:19
Yeah. Okay. So onto the subject of being embarrassed about your website. As a web designer, we need to just address it, this is super common to feel this way. Very, very natural, very normal. And you’d be surprised how many web designers that we talked to who feel this way,

Sam Munoz 03:39
right? Even if you look at their work, and you’re like, What are you talking about your website looks amazing. We all have those, like, inner insecurities and that imposter syndrome. And that idea that maybe I’m not as good as I think I am. And you know, where this really, really comes up for me is when I’m scrolling on social media, when I’m scrolling on social media, and I’m like judging my own work against someone else’s, we all have our own points of view, ladies, it’s okay that we have different types of styles and websites. And that doesn’t mean one of us is better or worse than another one. And so that embarrassment that like I’m not good enough, I don’t want to send some one to my website. Because if they see my website, and I’m embarrassed of it, like what does that mean about me and my work and my ability to serve? Well, as a web designer, if my website looks like that, those are the feelings we’re talking about.

Karyn Paige 04:27
Just like flooded with emotion, because it’s so real. And I think as we continue with this conversation, I’m feeling like I might make a lot of like references to like other types of design like fashion, interior design, architecture, etc. Because design makes you know, like you just said, it’s like we have our own styles, we have our own points of view. And it’s sometimes it might be helpful to think about our own web design through the lens of like other types of design. So I might be making some Tim Gunn references today. We’ll see.

Sam Munoz 04:57
I think that’s great. That’s a really good point is that like, it is It’s an art, like what we’re doing is very, very creative. And so us having our own perspective on things is actually a really good thing. And so we wanted to, first before we get into the topic more deeply just address that it is a super common thing that a lot of people experience. And it’s something that will come up time and time again, like I’ve been building websites for a really long time. And I’ve been running this business for a long time, and it still comes up. I mean, seriously To this day, like, I think a couple of weeks ago, again, I was scrolling on social media. And I was like, well, maybe I’m not that good. Maybe I shouldn’t charge this much. And it was just like a spiral. So first, let’s like remove some of the pressure, right? Yeah. Like, it’s hard to design for ourselves. It is objective, really hard to design for yourself, just like any industry, it’s hard to do that particular service for yourself. If you’re a copywriter, it’s hard to write copy for yourself, if you are an artist, it’s hard to make art just for yourself. So it’s hard to design for ourselves.

Karyn Paige 05:57
And here’s why it’s hard, because we are incredibly close to the thing, we’re close to the subject, you know what I mean? It’s like the calls are coming from inside the house. So sometimes, like, if you think about it in the other way, like, it’s sometimes easier for us to design for our clients, because we are seeing who they are and bringing those elements out about them. But it’s some, it’s very difficult to like, see yourself, Know yourself, know, what makes you tick, and then create a design that reflects that, right?

Sam Munoz 06:28
It’s like we get a creative brief in makeup, you know how, like, in when Yeah, like that. There’s like a makeup show, I can’t remember what it’s called on Netflix, but they give him like a whole brief of like, this is what you need to do. But like, we don’t have that for ourselves, because we are so close to it.

Karyn Paige 06:41
Yeah, you know, it’s like going back to the idea of like, inner work, like, those things can come for you if you give them the time to give yourself the time and space to think about it. But oftentimes, it’s like, that’s why as designers, we give our clients like questionnaires like you know, what do you want it to look like, feel like, what what symbol represents you? Like, you know, give me some ideas of websites that you like, like, all those things. But some times it’s like, we’re not doing that for ourselves. So that makes it hard to because it’s like, the rules go out the window, the way we would treat our clients, we don’t treat ourselves.

Sam Munoz 07:15
Yeah, like, it’s nothing is harder than like opening up your website that’s like, blank, and having literally no idea where you’re what you’re gonna, like, there’s no harder thing. And that’s, I think what we do, right with our own websites, cuz we’re like, oh, we know ourselves, we don’t need to make mock ups like we don’t need to, which by the way, making mock ups for your own website is like, best decision I’ve ever done. I used to not do that. And that was when the embarrassment was really real. And once I started making mock ups for us, and like having a really defined brand, and giving ourselves those parameters, very, very helpful in terms of being less embarrassed. Yeah, I

Karyn Paige 07:48
mean, can we talk about like backstage, do the things that we don’t do for ourselves that we would do for our clients? Like, I’m just laughing, because it’s sometimes it feels like all the things we know, go out the window, it’s like, you know, you’re looking at that blank screen. It’s like, okay, maybe start with the menu, or Okay, maybe start with the Hero, Hero image, you know, it’s like, wait, it’s like, we have these tools. But when it comes to ourselves, we’re not, we’re not applying them, we’re not using them, we’re not pulling them out of our toolbox.

Sam Munoz 08:17
Totally, I do think that one part of having your own website and it being like a reflection of your work and stuff like that is that as you continue to build more for more clients, and you have all this, like creative energy being thrown at you, you get ideas from different clients who have different perspectives themselves, and you’re like adapting your style, I do think you will want to redesign your website a lot. And I don’t think that that’s a bad thing. I don’t think that you should push that away that desire to like, come back and make tweaks. But I do think that we don’t have to throw everything at those websites. And there’s other places that we can put that creative energy that would be more in service of our business versus just continuously making updates that aren’t really meaningful.

Karyn Paige 08:59
Yeah, because when you’re continuously making those updates that aren’t meaningful, it’s really, I think, what’s right underneath the surface there is there’s some procrastination, there’s some perfectionism and so you know that it becomes this story of like, Oh, I just, I’m just gonna keep tweaking my website until it’s perfect. And then when it’s perfect, then I can go like focus on some other things in my business, like booking clients or you know, portfolio examples, but I just need to find the perfect font, okay, when I find the perfect font, then I can move on. Or, you know, when I find the perfect shade of this one color in my brand, or like when I figure out how to develop this one like element that’s stuck in my mind, then I can move on. But like those conversations that we’re having about putting all of this time and effort and energy into our own websites can be such a distraction, and also kind of like a safety net so that we’re not going out and doing those other things that actually propel our businesses forward.

Sam Munoz 09:56
Totally. What a good point to bring up that like by being embarrassed of our Own Website. And because of that embarrassment going in and trying to change it all the time and make tweaks, it is taking away from things that could actually help our business grow more to where we don’t have to be logging into our website, maybe at all. And I do think that there’s reasons why we’re embarrassed, right, we’ve touched on one of them is that maybe you think you’re an amateur, maybe you think you’re not as good as other people. And again, leaning into the idea that we all have our own points of view, we all have our own reasons behind the choices we make on our website, you know, for why we put this here and why we make those choices for our clients. And like, we all have our own uniqueness to us. And that’s what makes us special and makes us distinguished from other people in our industry. So what if instead of saying I’m an amateur and other people’s work is better than mine, you do two things, you one commit to continuous improvement. And so if there are areas where you’re like, Oh, I think I’d like to improve in this area, work on that. But it can be outside the confines of your own website, it could be for a sample project where you can, you know, work on those skills. And then the other thing is, what if you let go of this idea of being an amateur, and you just leaned into the skills that you do have, and you decided, this is enough, my perspective is good enough. And there’s value in the fact that like, I’ve created something different. And that’s okay.

Karyn Paige 11:16
And let’s not also forget that, like, you can do the thing, like you can build a website, you can pick fonts, you can create columns, you do know that there are things like layouts that make sense. And that right, there is already enough, because there are people out there who have no idea. And those are the people that need you, you know,

Sam Munoz 11:38
totally. And honestly, this is coming from a lack of confidence, right? Like that’s the that’s at the root of all of it is like a lack of confidence, and maybe your skills or in that perspective, and those are really deep rooted things like my extend beyond the work that you do, right might extend to your personal life and like how you feel like as a human on the human level, and so like, how do we translate that back into our work and like our worth, and that lack of confidence, and I mean, it even relates back to like pricing and how much you charge, I’d like to have a little deeper conversation about like this confidence thing, because there’s no like, okay, now go out and become confident and like, here’s ABCD like this will make you more confident. Now, what do we do with that?

Karyn Paige 12:18
I mean, I think about confidence a lot. I think about it in different industries, capacities, like personal professional, etc. confidence comes from practice, confidence comes from doing something over and over again, like, Are you confident that you can tie your shoes? Like, is there any doubt in your mind that you don’t know how to tie your shoes? No, no, you’ve done it a lot of times, right? Like, are you confident that Well, actually, I don’t know if you’re confident if you can boil an egg. But like, I’m confident that I can boil an egg.

Sam Munoz 12:50
But it wasn’t like a year ago? Yes. Right. Because I didn’t know how to do it didn’t learn it didn’t practice it. And every time I would like, go to open it up, I’m like, ooh, is this yolk going to be cooked or not? And so I would not have had someone over for eggs, I would not have been like, oh, come over to my house. And let me boil eggs for you. I would have been totally embarrassed of the potentials of what could happen.

Karyn Paige 13:10
But then it’s like you kind of you kind of start to figure out okay, well, that time it didn’t go so well. So maybe like I’ll figure out why. Right. But ultimately, like confidence really comes from doing something enough times where you feel comfortable. And also you’ve made enough mistakes where you’ve like reduced this need to be perfect, right? Or you cut, you get to a point where you’re like, this is good enough, does he be a plus b plus or whatever. And also, I think part of the competence comes into this idea too, of like getting out of this isolation bubble, right? And like getting into space where you’re not comparing, like you’re not looking at your work versus somebody else’s work. But you are aware that what you do is your thing, right? Like we’ve talked about this idea of community and maybe I’m like kind of skipping around and like sidebar thing, but like, what made me feel confident as a designer, was when I started like communicating with other designers and developers and like learning how to do things maybe that were in my head, and I didn’t know how to develop them, or vice versa. Like I knew how to develop something. And then somebody was like, Oh, you just here’s a cool idea that you can add to a site, right? So it’s like, being invigorated by new ideas by not just being alone with your ideas all the time.

Sam Munoz 14:31
Totally. And like that’s, I think that’s a part of like the learning process too is like getting feedback, giving feedback, applying that feedback, you know, and then looking at it and deciding, again, like you said, this is good enough or this is not good enough. The big thing about owning your own business is there so many times where you have to be self affirming. There is no person that is going to give you like employee of the month there is no one like going to perpetual Wait, you hire in the company once you like create this great website, like you have to be self affirming. And you can also you can pull that from different things, right? Like, I’ve got some testimonials that I look back at when I’m feeling nervous about my own web design skills. And I’m like, No, no, we got results. Because again, this is I mean, this goes back to conversations we’ve been having a ton on this podcast is, it’s not even about us. If our clients say our work is good, our work is effing good. Because it’s about the client. And it’s about what we’re doing for them. And so we need to kind of like drop our ego a little bit to it, which is like, it’s almost like reverse, right? You wouldn’t think that that would make sense. But it is because it’s like, if we are being so embarrassed of our website, that we’re not sending it out to people, we’re depriving potential clients of the work that we could do for them to help them in their businesses. So like, excuse me, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s just like a weird way to think about if it’s true,

Karyn Paige 15:51
it is a weird way to think about it. Because what I’m hearing you say is like, we’re so wrapped up in our own thing in our own website that like, we forget that we’re here to like, serve other people and help other people and like, build things for other people. Right? And yes, I want to talk about like, when you’re so embarrassed of your own website, though, like the things that we do to to like overcompensate for that embarrassment, like, all these little things that we think will fix will fix will fix our website and make it better when it ultimately is like, kind of like over complicating things and pulling us away and like adding more distractions and to dues and you know, throwing more things at it. And so it becomes like this letter of stuff. Yes, that pulls us away from our clients, right? Yes.

Sam Munoz 16:35
So like, what kind of stuff are we doing to overcompensate? Because that’s what, that’s what it is, it’s an overcompensation because we’re embarrassed or because we think we’re not good enough. So we’re like, we’re gonna bust it all out, we’re gonna put like, every button I know how to make, I’m gonna put shadows here. But then it becomes this like Frankenstein monster of like a bunch of random things when that energy could be put into clients, or in case studies or other things that could be super, super useful for your business. And like you said, it’s a bit of procrastination, where it’s like, if I just keep tweaking my website, I don’t have to potentially get on a discovery call and get a no, or I don’t have to potentially put myself out there and be visible and be vulnerable, which we’re going to talk about in another episode is like vulnerabilities. But like, I don’t have to do those things, because I’m just gonna like stay in the safety net of my own website.

17:19
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, the safety net.

Karyn Paige 17:25
That’s one way that we’re overcompensating. It’s like we spend all of this time searching for these perfect things, right? Like, okay, now I need to search for stock photography, or now it’s the font that’s holding me back. Or, you know, it’s the colors that are holding me back. Or, you know, just putting an image on the site isn’t good enough, it needs to have a shadow, it needs to have like a border, I need. I don’t know how to do that. So now I need to figure out how to do all of these things. Like those things are spiraling where it’s like, maybe just putting the photo on the page is good enough and move on?

Sam Munoz 17:59
Yes. And what would we do for clients did that to us? If they said, I think it’s the shadow. It’s the shadow that’s, you know, making my website not work and like, but you know, as the designer, you’re like, no, like, we have this plan. And the point of your website is to achieve this result. And if you became your own client in that way, you’d be like, Wait a second, no, this is not worth the time. Like, what is the result we’re trying to achieve with the website? I love that,

Karyn Paige 18:24
right? And it’s, it’s like, so you just throw everything at it, right. And so this, this makes me think of like Coco Chanel, the famous designer who’s like before you leave the house, take one thing off, or like Tim Gunn, who would look back at a design in the workroom or Project Runway with his finger over his mouth, and be like, Hey, I think you need to edit, we actually don’t need as much stuff. We don’t need as much design elements on our website, like design element stuff as we think we need, first of all, so we can release ourselves of the pressure of like, trying to put every design element we know onto these pages, because it’s not that serious, right. And the other thing that I see that we do a lot and I’ve done it too, is we we get into this mode of trying to convince people with words with our copywriting. And so our webpages are just lines and lines and lines of text block and like cute, clever kitschy stuff and buzzwords and catchphrases and all of these things and I got to come up with a brilliant name for my packages and you know all these things like words on our websites where it’s almost like Hey, I know my webs I don’t really like the way my website looks. So maybe if you spend some time reading my words, I can like convince you and persuade you that I’m like good at what I do and I can help you too. That is also another distraction because most web designers are not copywriters. We’re web designers first. So that’s where skill sets are so then you you go off into the space where you’re trying to overcompensate. For the way you feel about your website with words, I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about that component of the overcompensation on our websites go there. Go all the way there. Now. Now, this is just me. Okay, cuz I’m, I’m often looking at websites from the perspective of a client. I don’t want to read that much. When I’m on my phone. Oh, totally. I don’t want to scroll. I’m getting carpal tunnel in my thumb, okay, I just want to see it. I feel like if you’re a web designer, show me Show me Don’t tell me, I would rather see examples of your work. Then read about, like, all the amazing things that are like I would rather see see examples of your work than be persuaded to work with you. I’m just gonna say that,

Sam Munoz 20:41
right. Like you said, edit, edit. And it Karyn, it’s, I mean, would again, if we’re thinking about our clients, too, would we advise them to send us a wall of text to put on a website? Probably not? No, we’d be like, here, we need to, we know, we need a headline for this, we need like two to three sentences here quickly explaining this thing, because people are scanning like no one is going to sit there and like, read the whole thing like that. I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s the reality. And like you said, it does come across as like, I need to convince you, I need to give you every, like little piece of information. And what is that doing that’s distracting people from getting on a discovery call with you, because they’re gonna have to scroll through a wall of text to get to that link.

Karyn Paige 21:20
And it’s like, Just show me and tell me how to get on the call with you. Because I love what I see. I just want to, I want to book on I do the thing, you know, and I’m just gonna throw this out here, too. I think maybe we all learned that it’s a good idea to keep people on your site for a long time, because it helps with your web traffic and your SEO. So one way to do that is to have more words on your page, so they have to scroll. And that’s not necessary. Just gonna throw

Sam Munoz 21:42
I think that’s an outdated piece of like, that’s an outdated suggestion, for sure. But it just move I just, I just came up for me. So you know, Karyn, I think it’s interesting, though, about this whole idea of copywriting in general. And now this is no shade to our copywriting friends, or if you’re listening and you you do copywriting, like there is a time and a place for investing in a copywriter. However, I do think that if you are a web designer, and you’re embarrassed of your website, and one aspect of that is you’re like, Oh, I just need to hire a copywriter. a copywriter can’t help if like the inner work isn’t done, right? Like if you don’t know the words, the copywriter can’t create them for you. And so if you haven’t done the work of like, who is my dream client, like, what is my business about? What are my packages, like someone else can’t create that vision for you. And so like hiring a copywriter is not going to help with that. And it’s not going to help with the embarrassment of your website, because the true value of your website is like you said, it’s a showcase. It’s showing what you do. It’s not proving it’s not proving through like bells and whistles and like how much can I throw at this to just like, prove that I’m so good at web design? It’s like how can I succinctly concisely and strategically show my work so that someone wants to hire me because the website is just like a quick it’s a pass through to getting on a phone call with you and like taking that next step with you. And so it really is like the embarrassment comes from that lack of confidence and thinking you have to like throw it all and put all the words and all the proof because I mean, again, it does it comes from this deep rooted feeling of like, maybe I’m not good enough. And maybe if I just pushed a little harder and added a little more stuff, someone would see that I am good.

Karyn Paige 23:24
And this idea that like, Can Do we know who our ideal clients are? Do we know who we want to work with? Are we designing with them in mind? You know what I mean? Is there something that keeps coming up a lot for women and web designers like we all want to work with like creative entrepreneurs, we want to work with the the sexy, you know, feminine girl boss, like Instagram, influencer types who all want like playfair display, italicized and all want like soft, beautiful colors, right? But what about like the coffee shops of the world? What about the dentist office is of the world? What about the lawyers of the world? What about the nonprofits of the world? Who need websites, but maybe don’t need the most? They don’t need their website to look like it’s walking down the runway at New York Fashion Week.

Sam Munoz 24:14
Yeah, they did something super functional,

Karyn Paige 24:16
right? So let’s talk about like, the skills that we have the things that we want to accomplish, who might need those and maybe go from there because I think sometimes as women weren’t, we naturally gravitate towards like, the beautiful pretty things that we see on Instagram. So we feel like we need to fit into those molds. And I’m like, but Says who? says Why? And what about all these people who like Oh, and by the way, sometimes our clients don’t need all these design elements, right? Sometimes they just need photos, words and a button they’d be happy with that you

Sam Munoz 24:49
know, and that makes me think about like one other aspect of like, why would you might be embarrassed of your website is like maybe it’s just simply out of alignment that my very first iteration of my website had like rose gold everywhere. And I mean, like, I have a little bit of gold around my house, but like Karyn can see my home right now on zoom like I’m very not rose Goldie. And like, absolutely everything was rose gold, and like pink and blush and all of these things on my website and like thinking back, I mean, that wasn’t me that was like I was trying to fit that mold, right? I was like, these are the people that I think I need to be serving. But like who is taking on the coffee shops, a dentist’s office, all these other people that need websites and need your work, I’m going to tell you who’s taking those people on men holla. But it is a lucrative it is an available it is it abundant space. And I we’ve had the pleasure of working with several people in different industries. And they are lovely. I don’t even know how we got to this part of the conversation. But it’s I think it all ties back to like the that like confidence and like you’re not an amateur and your website is a reflection of your work. Yes. But also like, it’s not the end all be all of what you do in your business either, like your website as a designer. So what happens when you’re embarrassed, you don’t want to share it, right? You don’t want to share your website with anyone, you miss opportunities, because you just leave that coming soon page on and then you delay because you don’t have it all figured out. You thought you know, you’re having perfectionist thoughts. You’re thinking I just needed to tweak this one thing, when in reality, there might be something bigger. Like Karyn, you were just mentioning this, right? Like there might be something beyond just like the aesthetics of your website that’s happening. That is the blocker in terms of like not getting hired, not finding clients to work with.

Karyn Paige 26:31
Yeah, the alignment piece. That’s huge. And it prevents you from moving on to a new project where there’s new ideas that like might make more sense, you know what I mean? And let’s also talk Yeah, oh, let’s also talk about how like some of our clients like in addition to like, what they need, what they don’t need, they’re looking at us like that is good enough, that is totally fine. That’ll work. Let me pay you for it. It’s great. Let me tell you about an experience that I had, right where I was working with the client. And I had this really cool layout where like, there were columns that were like, overlapping with like images overlapping with like a text block that had the text block had like a colored background. So it was like a square. And I was like really, really proud of this design that I presented. And the client was like, Can you just separate those and like, take the colored background away from the text and just like put the image to, like the left of it, can you just do that? And I was like, Oh, she doesn’t even need all of that, like that was so liberating. so liberating to take this pressure off, right? So

Sam Munoz 27:39
we put so much pressure on ourselves to like innovate every single time. But it’s also not even required, like, Karyn and I have been reading this, I should probably grab the book, but it’s I haven’t.

Karyn Paige 27:53
It’s called the laws of U xx, by john Jablonski.

Sam Munoz 28:00
Yeah, we’ll put that in the show notes. And, ladies, this book has taught me so much about this idea of like, innovation is awesome. But sometimes people just want something that achieves the function because our brains are programmed to look for things in certain places and to like, recognize information and like see it in, you know, whatever. So when we’re embarrassed about our website, because we think it’s not this like crazy, novel, insane reflection of all the things that we can do. What if we thought about it from that perspective of like, is my website functioning? As you know, is it is it achieving the things that I need to? Is it showing off my work? Is it connecting with my potential clients? Is it getting people on calls with me? Oh, it is. Okay, great that my website is good enough. And it is working for me period, step away, set it and forget it. And that’s what we do about that. Right? Like, where do we go from here in terms of being embarrassed? And like, how do we move out of that space so that we can move forward in our businesses?

Karyn Paige 28:54
Well, it’s like, just set it and forget it, honey, just like a crock pot. You know, just like put it there, move on, go do some other things. And like, it’s good enough, push all of that creative energy that you want to put into your own website, like into work for your clients into designs, like into portfolio examples, sample projects, I would love nothing more. Like this is just me from a minimalist perspective, to see a web designer site where it’s like, I land there, I’ve got you know, there’s maybe some sort of like hero image identity statement, whatever. It’s just mock ups of some good work and you want to see more. Okay, go to you know, you want to work with me go to my services page. CTA button. Wow. Services page. It’s this. It’s simple as bullet points. I don’t have to move my head back and forth. I don’t see. activate my carpal tunnel and my thumb boom prices starting at this great, love it. Let’s go.

Sam Munoz 29:52
Yeah, and I mean, Karyn our Samantha Munoz calm is a single like we have cut it down to a one page website. It has info About Us, it has our services, it has a bunch of examples of our work. Because I realized I was like what is like the most important thing to put on this website, it is examples of what we do. It is examples of the work. And that’s, that’s it. And I love that that idea of like putting that creative energy towards sample projects, because again, like it’s going to come up and you’re going to want to do something with it. And I say go with the flow. Like if you’re feeling creatively energized, and you are having flow in that way, and you don’t have any clients to work with, put it into creating some awesome mock ups for that ideal client you want to work with and throw that on your website. Now that is a good tweak to be making. Another thing you can do and move forward with is practice. Like you can practice in those ways. And like you said before, like getting in community, with other people in our industry and talking about your work and like getting feedback. And I really think like allowing someone to tell you that you’re good at what you do. And using that as proof. Remember that people have paid you for your work, there’s a reason that people have paid you for what you do.

Karyn Paige 31:00
One of my favorite things to do that I learned from a mindset coach that helps me when I’m telling those stories of the I’m not this or I’m not that kind of thing is to create an evidence list that I am that right. So like, it’s to your point what you were saying like if clients have already paid you for your work, and they’re satisfied with it, put it on your evidence list that you are good designer, put it on your evidence list that you don’t need to be embarrassed about your design and your website and look at it every time you feel embarrassed, or like your stuffs not good at it. Maybe I don’t care if it’s one bullet point, because you’ve had one client like that is enough. And adding to that list, adding to that list. And then eventually you won’t need that list anymore because you believe in your heart, that you have evidence that you’re good at what you do.

31:46
Wow,

Sam Munoz 31:47
I love that. I think that is a great place to end this episode. being embarrassed of your own website as a web designer is real and it’s okay. But I hope that after listening to this episode, you feel heard and seen but also have some actual things that you can do to step away from that doubt. That embarrassment and that fear and just start sending your website to people and getting out there and making your business dreams come true. So you can you know, move forward.