Sam Munoz 00:00
But when we’re inundated with other people’s dreams and their frameworks to achieve those dreams, it’s hard to see how we get there without doing it their exact way, which we are not about here. We have frameworks, we have systems, we have processes and tactics that work. And we want to share those with you guys. But we’re not about telling you No, no, this is the only way to do something that’s not empowering at all. And in this episode, in particular, we’re going to be talking about what is actually required to run a web design business. In more specific terms. It’s more of a overarching framework versus this is like you have to be showing up and doing this on this platform and talking to this many people.

Karyn Paige 00:41
It’s like the framework versus formula type of thing.

Sam Munoz 00:48
Welcome to making website magic where we empower women to step boldly into their web design, businesses follow their intuition and claim the success they’re worthy of. I’m Sam Munoz.

Karyn Paige 00:59
And I’m Karyn page, where the tech wizards behind Sam Munoz consulting on the making website Magic School of Business. We’re two women here to talk about what it actually takes to run a web design business that’s aligned with your vision. Spoiler alert,

Sam Munoz 01:12
it probably isn’t what you think it is ready to hear about everything from refining your business vision, networking with intention and creating a magical client experience.

01:21
Let’s do it.

Sam Munoz 01:26
Well, hello, Karyn. Hello, and welcome to this first episode of making website magic.

01:35
We’re so excited.

Sam Munoz 01:36
I’m super excited to have this conversation today. Especially because we tried to record this podcast already one time this podcast episode. And I love the fact that we gave ourselves permission to say you know what, that wasn’t exactly what we wanted to say. And also, let’s like, make sure we’re leading into the heart of the podcast. And I just think that that’s so cool that we created space to do that. So I’m going to give ourselves a little pat on the back for that one.

Karyn Paige 01:59
Yeah, pop in the collar two times. Okay, so let’s talk about why we had to come back and re record Episode One, though, like what was going on with us? What were we talking about? And why wasn’t that working?

Sam Munoz 02:11
Yeah. Okay, we want to spill the beans on like, actually what we were going to say or like, kind of the the direction we went in. I like it. You know what transparency, it’s an it’s a value.

Karyn Paige 02:21
It’s a value. Okay, so short and sweet, though, like we were talking about? Like how, when you are starting your web design business. It’s really so much more than just building a website. Like there’s all these things, right? departments, hats, etc. And what ended up happening in our conversation is we kind of started going through this like laundry list of things that need to be done.

Sam Munoz 02:44
We literally called it a laundry list. I think that was Mistake number one.

Karyn Paige 02:48
But it just, you know, when something just it doesn’t feel right, and you go with your gut, and you’re like, I am just not here for it. That’s what ended up happening. So that we step back took a long, hard look at what we really wanted to say. And that’s why we came back to discuss this topic on episode one. Yeah, so

Sam Munoz 03:07
we’re talking about why following generalized online business advice isn’t serving you and what is actually required to run a web design business. And it’s so interesting, because we’re basically taking what we were going to record and like flipping it and reversing it, so to speak. Just

Karyn Paige 03:22
like Missy Elliott, we like if you’re gonna if you’re gonna I’m gonna start moving my shoulders. Okay, it’s a podcast.

Sam Munoz 03:30
Yeah, I got I got I got what I deserved. Honestly, I own that one.

Karyn Paige 03:33
Yeah, so we wanted to flip it and reverse it, because we kind of noticed that we were doing the thing that we don’t like to do. And we’re doing the thing that we’re not about, which is like giving generalized

03:45
business advice.

Sam Munoz 03:46
And also giving this list of all these things that you have to do, which Yes, there are a lot of components involved in running a web design business and running it well. However, you don’t have to do all of those things a day one or even day, you know, 355, you can pull what you want to do in your business and make it authentic to you, which is honestly what we’re all about on this podcast. And in all of our programs and educational resources and things. It’s all about leaning into your authentic self. And so if we start giving people like a list of things to do, that doesn’t really allow them to find the empowerment to choose what makes sense for them, right? 100. And like,

Karyn Paige 04:25
we’re really big on going with your intuition and like listening to your voice listening to what you need. And so even in that conversation, it was like, this doesn’t feel like us doesn’t sound like us. So therefore, maybe that’s not really aligned with who we are. Right. So now we’re here today.

Sam Munoz 04:43
And I do think this is something that we do all the time in the business is we will like create something and then have the integrity I would say that’s the word here to take it and say you know what, this actually doesn’t fit with what we’re doing and that’s okay. We learned Something along the way. And we documented that process and there was learning experiences that happened. I mean, we’re talking like clients that we maybe shouldn’t have worked with projects we shouldn’t have taken on programs we’ve created. Like, there’s all sorts of stuff that we’ve tried. And kind of bringing it full circle to the topic of the podcast today about listening to generalize business advice, and why it doesn’t work is because we’re often told we should do 1000 different things in our business. Right. And I know Karyn has an awesome story about this. I call it her origin story, for this, you know, experience of taking all these things and trying to do so many different things and just saying, Why doesn’t it work, though, instead of being able to say, actually, it’s okay that these different things don’t work in my business and the aligned business that I’m trying to create, and focusing in on the things that are required and do serve you and keeping it simple. So Karyn, would you mind sharing a little bit about that story and journey for us?

Karyn Paige 05:54
Yeah, so when I decided to launch my web design business, and naturally, like, kind of just jumped into a million different webinars, and so like one webinar about business led to another webinar about business, etc, etc. So I started following online business coaches, and a lot of the advice was like, honestly, really general and not specific enough to a web designer, a service provider, someone who needs to make one on one connections in order to get clients, right, it was a lot of, I call it online business is different than running a business online, right. And so I didn’t know that when people are talking about online businesses, they’re really talking about those kind of like passive income business models, where you need to have an email list of 1000s of people because you’re trying to sell a $47 product or $97 product. And so you need to have like a conversion rate of, you know, 20% in order to make money and, and therefore, you have to do all of these, like marketing tactics and things to get as many eyes on your stuff as possible. And it’s all about traffic and like,

Sam Munoz 07:02
overwhelmed, it’s gonna say, Yeah, like, overwhelming.

Karyn Paige 07:06
And so I was like, how is this going to help me get clients to build websites, right. And so it hadn’t clicked that the advice that you get from someone who’s trying to teach you how to run an online business is not specific or relevant to a web designer, is totally different. And so I found myself just like, struggling for several, many months. Like, why are these tactics not working for me, and actually spent more time alone, like, just in front of my desktop, in front of my laptop, trying to set up funnels and trying to go on Amazon and like, do all kinds of like weird lurky tactics about like, what my ideal client might be reading, and therefore let me get some insight into what they’re doing. And I had spent zero time making connections with people, and therefore I had like, zero clients. Well, not technically zero. I like I built a website for my mom and like my first year,

Sam Munoz 08:10
I mean, but you had a personal connection with her turns out,

Karyn Paige 08:13
turns out, thank you. Hi. All of that is to say that it hadn’t occurred to me until very recently that the reason why none of that stuff was working for me is because my business model was different. I was trying to fit the web designer service provider done for a business model into a passive income. Don’t know any of your clients by name, just know them as email addresses, and PayPal transactions type of world. And so literally, I was trying to fit my square peg of a business into this round hole, black hole of like, online business advice.

Sam Munoz 08:54
Can I ask you, how did that make you feel to be trying so hard to implement these things? You’re like, No, I’m doing the stuff. I’m making the opt ins, I’m making the freebies, I’m doing all the things that I’m suggested to do. Like how did that make you feel to be feeling like you were doing all the right things, but not seeing the fruits of that labor, which you showed up? You were consistent, but it was a different business model and you know, applying those tactics to something that didn’t align.

Karyn Paige 09:23
Oh my gosh, okay, so it made me feel stupid. It made me feel like something was wrong with me. It made me feel like I was forcing myself to do something that wasn’t me, right? Like, I’m not the let’s have 10,000 followers type of gal. I’m the like, Let’s sit down on a coffee chat one on one and like, have fun. But nobody was saying hey, go do that. Right. Nobody like it felt like this isn’t working for me. Something must be wrong with me. Let me keep trying this thing until it works. So it was almost like doubling down on like something that’s not working. And it also, that’s what kind of gave me the imposter syndrome. Like I didn’t know what imposter syndrome was. And then it was like, Oh, well, if it’s working for everybody else, and it’s not working for me, something’s wrong with me. Let me go back to the drawing board. Let me try to create a nother freebie. Let me try to create a different sales for now. Let me try to post more on social media. Yeah. And that’s right around the time that I met you. And I was like,

10:26
hold up.

Karyn Paige 10:26
Wait a minute, sans web design business is slaying their game. Let me back up. I don’t even like to use words that are like implied destruction and death and killing. everybody’s like, you’re crushing it, you’re killing it. You’re slaying. I’m like, Sam’s business is thriving. How about that?

10:46
There we go. Very positive.

Karyn Paige 10:47
And it’s because you’re literally doing nothing that I

10:51
was doing. Like

Karyn Paige 10:57
that. Yeah. So it was just like, I was like, mind totally blown wide open when I was like, this advice that I’m getting just is it meant for my business model. And that’s why it’s not working. It’s not me. There’s nothing wrong with me, correct? It’s

Sam Munoz 11:14
Yeah, like you said, you’re trying to you’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It’s not going to happen. And it’s no fault of the square peg. It’s just trying to go into a hole that it’s not meant to be in.

Karyn Paige 11:27
And it’s not even the fault of the round hole. Because that’s a totally valid type of business model for somebody just not for

11:33
for us.

11:34
Yeah. And

Sam Munoz 11:36
probably anyone listening to this podcast is like, yeah, either. I’ve tried that, or I’ve heard of that. And it doesn’t work for our industry. There are specific things that do though. And something that I want to mention, because you said you came into SMC and you saw we were doing things differently. Honestly, one of the main reasons I didn’t do things like opt ins and freebies and things like that, were because I saw everybody doing that. And I was like, I don’t want to do what everybody else does. That’s just like my personality, right? This is really sad. But like, everybody read Twilight when I was in high school, and they were obsessed with it. And I was like, I’m not reading that book. And then I read it like at the very end of high school. And I loved it. But I like couldn’t do it when it was like trendy. Just like that. Like,

Karyn Paige 12:20
I’m just one of those guys see? Okay, I’m so glad that you said that. Because Twilight specifically, like I’m one of those people. I’m a little bit older than you. So like, nobody in my circle was reading Twilight. But when the movies came out, I was like, why is this phenomenon? And I was like, Well, if it is a phenomenon, like I’m not trying to participate in it, right. And then I think it was like 2018 I binged all of them on Amazon. And I was like, I get it. Yeah, you guys like, but it’s like, you have to come into things on your very that right? But you kinda have to come into things on your own time. And to your point about like, you saw everybody doing this type of like marketing, like email, you know, freebies and stuff like that, and it made you not want to do it. For me, it was like, I don’t know what I’m doing. And so this is what they’re telling me to do, then that’s what I should be doing. It’s almost like I’d kind of relinquished my natural, I don’t want to do what everybody’s doing. mindset, like my natural inclination, because I felt like everybody out there knows more than me. So I should be listening to them instead of really being like, Well, I know things, I can do things, I can figure things out on my own. And I can trust my my intuition. So somewhere in that, like I relinquish that, right, so it’s really affirming to be like, No, sir, everybody’s doing it doesn’t mean you have to do it.

Sam Munoz 13:41
Right. And honestly, like coming into a space like this, even if you’ve been here for a while, we’re inundated with information telling us that there’s one way to do it. So it’s really hard to block that out. Especially if you’re hearing people saying, I have a successful business doing this, I make millions of dollars, I have the laptop lifestyle, like even if there are things that you don’t even want, or desire, which we’re going to talk about that more in Episode Three, I believe about dreaming, and about, like figuring out what it is you desire. But when we’re inundated with other people’s dreams and their frameworks to achieve those dreams, it’s hard to see how we get there without doing it their exact way, which we are not about here. We have frameworks, we have systems, we have processes and tactics that work and we want to share those with you guys. But we’re not about telling you No, no, this is the only way to do something that’s not empowering at all. And in this episode, in particular, we’re going to be talking about what is actually required to run a web design business. In more specific terms. It’s more of a overarching framework versus this is like you have to be showing up and doing this on this platform and talking to this many people.

Karyn Paige 14:50
It’s like the framework versus formula type of thing. Oh, you know, like a framework is just like outline or like when I think of a framework like you know, engineering you No, you have a bad engineering, a framework to me is different than a blueprint. Like a blue Brian is like, if you don’t follow this exactly, your whole thing is going to be structurally unsound.

Sam Munoz 15:11
You’ve said it before Karyn about how it’s like baking or like cooking. Oh, yeah. Right. We’re like you have the ingredients, but like, you know, your measurements of them, and what you how you combine them. Sometimes you combine ingredients together, and it makes cookies. Sometimes you combine those same ingredients together makes brownies, but it’s how you configure it. And so what we’re telling you is like, here are some of the ingredients, you get to decide how much of each you do and how you fit that into your unique business model. But we are going to share specific things that work in this industry in particular, right. So kind of going back to this whole generalized online business advice and kind of getting a little bit further out, the freebies, the opt ins, the webinars, the social media, all of that stuff, it really is targeted at a one to many type of business model. Whereas what we do in the web design and development space is very one to one, you might be working with a team of people, you know, on the other side, your client might be a company, but you’re still it’s a one to one relationship. And so that’s why I truly believe those types of processes and methods for you know, quote, unquote, acquiring new clients or leads doesn’t work for a web design and development business, because it’s not inherently one to one, which is why I advocate and I have from the beginning, personal connections, discovery calls, coffee chats, and that’s something that we teach in our programs. And it’s, you know, things that we talk to all the time with each other. How can we reach out to people one on one, so,

Karyn Paige 16:37
okay, let’s not Yeah, let’s not skip over the phrase that you just said, one too many verses one to one. And, like, to your point, most of the general online business advice is so one to many, but if you aren’t really into the fact that, as a web designer, you are a one to one business. So Gosh, like I love how you just basically synthesize my whole origin story.

17:07
Karyn, you’re following one too many. I

Sam Munoz 17:08
mean, it’s confusing. The thing is, though, that again, like kind of going back to the advertising and the marketing tactics that people use when sharing these concepts, it’s like, the only way you can have a big business is by doing this one to many approach. And I’m here to tell you that that’s 100% not true, you can have a very scalable, very profitable web design and development business focusing on one to one, you don’t have to create a course, you don’t have to have a program, you don’t have to create templates, unless you want to go in those avenues. There are ways to scale that maintain that one to one framework. And so really, I think that that’s kind of at the core of what is actually required to run a web design business and to get clients in the door is to focus on those personal connections. And that’s going to be a thread that happens through the entire client process, too. Because you’re not interacting with your clients in a one to many way, right, like you’re always interacting with them one to one. So the more you own that, and then get good at that, the better you will be at getting people on Discovery calls, selling people on those discovery calls into your services, the better you’ll be at delivering a great client experience for them so that they ultimately go refer all of their friends and then that whole process starts over. So it’s really, really quite simple when we kind of break it down like that. Because did I mentioned like freebies, opt ins, webinars, like anything that involves funnels of any kind, no,

Karyn Paige 18:34
I’m smoothing out my my eyebrows right now. It’s still so like, right there, right, like very close to the surface, right? And very close to that. And to your point, it’s like, so much of any business is really a always kind of goes back to marketing. And it goes back to the way that you get in front of the people that are going to pay you for your services, right. And it reminds me like, you know, when you’re talking about funnels, and webinars and things that also reminds me of like this obligation that we feel to like post on social media all the time. And again, that’s a one to many tactic, like showing up every day and all of these things. But if you’re a one to one model, and you’re really like, centered in that, like my business is a one to one business, then every approach that you do in order to get in front of your ideal clients has to center that and be in service of that. And so that makes me get really curious and really imaginative of like, Well what does that mean? What does that look like? Which is really exciting,

Sam Munoz 19:38
right? Which we’re going to be digging into in the podcast, right? Like that’s a big part of why we created this podcast was to help people unlearn those tactics, those things that were told I almost like if you’re listening to this in your car, or you’re like on a run or something like I’m gonna make you raise your hand if you can relate to have you ever created like a freebie or an opt in or maybe are used to, you know, post Thing daily on social media, but you’re not seeing results from those things, feel free, raise your hand look like a weirdo.

20:07
And yeah, that’s and that’s okay.

Sam Munoz 20:09
But the thing is like, what if you decided today, that time that I was going to spend that hour I was going to spend creating another quote graphic in Canva and planning out my social media for the week. Instead, I’m just gonna focus on maybe going into some Facebook groups and talking to people one on one. And we can get deeper into Facebook groups. And like all of that, because I’m not you know, there’s there’s techniques that work. And then there’s things that waste your time, and I’m not about wasting any time. But go connect with people one on one go send out this is my one of my favorite tips, go send out an email to someone that wanted to work with you, but didn’t follow through a very engaging, personable email, how are you? Did you end up having that problem solved? Do you still need support, you guys, the number of times I have sent an email like that, and then booked a client almost immediately is absurd, because people you know, want to be heard. And sometimes the timings not right, and you know, whatever. But that’s an actionable thing that you could go do, that could directly lead to money in your bank account. Whereas I can guarantee you posting that Instagram graphic, you know what it’s gonna give you, it’s gonna give you 15, little hearts, little digital hearts that do nothing, that do nothing for your business, do nothing to move the needle forward, don’t do anything for your life, right? They’re not bringing more money into your bank. So you can go do things with your family, or go explore the world or, you know, experience things that don’t do anything for that. So I encourage you to do something actionable. And take that hour and you know, make it make it worth something in your business

21:43
preach.

Sam Munoz 21:48
It’s just so simple that like you said, it’s, it’s almost too simple that it feels like I thought this was supposed to be a little bit harder. I mean, come on, kid, just go talk. Okay, but

Karyn Paige 21:59
here’s the thing too, about like, the relief of it being that simple, is the other thing that that really bugs me about a lot of like, General online business advice is that it’s kind of intended to keep you attached to the person that’s giving you the advice. Oh, my gosh, you know, it can’t be that simple. Because if if they were like, Oh, just go do this, then there’s no money in the comeback for them. Like, you know what I mean?

Sam Munoz 22:26
Well, I was Yeah. And can we talk about the fact that a lot of these online business gurus are selling or affiliates of things that keep you tied to them. So let’s just be very frank, if you’re following an online business owner, and they’re telling you, you have to have a freebie, freebie, you have to go create an email list, and then you purchase their course, you’re going to find more likely than not, when you’re in that course that they are an affiliate of active campaign of ConvertKit of you know, ontraport. And so when you go sign up for that, they get an affiliate kickback. And there’s nothing wrong with that, again, if that’s if it fits the business model, then that’s fine. So people that might fit that business model would be people like content creators, you know, YouTubers, bloggers, influencers could fit in that model, handmade sellers, maybe. But a web designer or developer shouldn’t be taking that course to grow their email list when they’re trying to sell a one on one service. So you’re basically giving them money giving them affiliate commissions, so that they can keep telling you that you need something that you don’t need. So then when it doesn’t work, and you keep trying, and you keep paying for that thing, do we see the cycle? Do we see the vicious cycle?

Karyn Paige 23:34
And it’s also like a vicious, it’s a time cycle to because it’s like, Okay, well, now, if I have to create this sales funnel, I have to write the emails, I have to figure out what the emails are gonna say, I have to, like, do all of these things, and then create the freebie graphic that comes with it. So now I have to like search in Canva, or search and creative market, and like, find the stuff and then I have to figure out what somebody might want in order to get them on my email list. And like all this stuff, and so you could spiral for months, doing that stuff, setting up all of that tech and automation, then to realize that, like one nobody wants it to. It doesn’t serve you booking a one to one client. And three probably made you feel really bad about yourself, because you’re like, why isn’t this working? Right? So there’s, that’s the big thing for me is like a lot of the general online business advice is like it’s a time commitment. Oh my gosh, it’s a time commitment. It’s a money commitment. And it’s like, I felt like think this is like an Alice in Wonderland reference or something when she like opens a door and there’s another door. And then she opens a door and there’s another door. And it’s like everything. It’s like, Oh, now I got to buy this. And now I got to set this up. And I got to do this. And all of that time and energy is taken away from what you really need to be doing. As a Web Designer, which is making one on one connections working on your portfolio, like all kinds of stuff.

Sam Munoz 25:07
And can we talk about like the money investment to which like, if you’re opening all these doors, and you’re like, Okay, I gotta make this $97 197. Okay, now, then I’m gonna just get this program that’s $2,000, it’s going to teach me how to make a freebie and a funnel. And we’re not doing anything that’s money generating. So now we’re going negative in the business, and we’re not having anything that’s going to give us an ROI on that on top of it. And in conjunction with paying for all these things, you might actually be paying for platforms and tools that you don’t need. So I’m gonna be very honest, when I started this business, what I had and what I paid for, it was super minimal. Like I bought a license for Divi, I was like, I’m gonna get the lifetime one because I’m going to do this. But the lifetime license of Divi, I obviously paid for hosting for my website. And then I paid for dubsado, which is the tool that I used to use for like invoicing and everything. And I believe that was it. Like That was my only recurring things, right? I had a calendly account the free one, because I just wanted to get on Discovery calls with people didn’t need anything else. I’m really trying to think back did I pay for anything else, I paid for contracts. But there was no recurring stuff other than paying for my website, and paying for something to you know, get clients. And it was like an all in one solution. I think it was $25 at that time. So that meant like the profit like man, the end of that first year of business, the profit on my business was insane. It wasn’t until we started adding, you know, other things, that business model that we decided to do later on, that the expenses went up on top of that. And every time we’ve added a new program, or a new other aspect that’s outside of that one to one Private Client project stuff, I’ve had to really check in and say, Is this a good enough ROI? Or am I just paying for tools, and, you know, resources and contractors and all this other stuff that we don’t really need in order to get to the heart of like the profitable business?

Karyn Paige 26:57
Yeah, and I was 180 degrees opposite of you on that. I was like, all I needed to hear from one online business guru was if you’re serious about your business, you need to buy this. And I was like, well, I am serious in our business. So I do need to buy that. So whereas you were like, my overhead is very low, I have no recurring charges, like what I needed to get started was minimal. I was opposite. I was like, give me the tailwind Pinterest scheduler give me a stock photo membership, because I need to be doing on social all the time, like this, this, this, this and that. And then I was like all but I don’t want to invest in dubsado. Because I don’t want to have that like recurring charge. But it was all this other external fluff. Like, let me invest in a copywriting course, because that’s where I’m falling short. Let me invest in like all of the things they let me invest in another business coaching course, because the one I did before, didn’t give me the results, all of these things, right,

Sam Munoz 28:00
which again, the those coaching things that you and courses and programs that you may have entered into, were probably not specific to this industry. So you were getting advice that wasn’t working for you. Whereas if you had invested in something that was specific to this industry, you might have been applying tactics that would actually result in an ROI from that program. Yeah, it’s really interesting. I feel like what we’re what we’re really saying here, if we kind of had to break it down, is business doesn’t have to be complicated. It doesn’t require things like funnels and freebies, this type of business in particular, it does not, in order to get those first few clients, I have this tweet that I always share every now and then like on on Instagram, I shared it like a few months ago. And I kind of come back to it every now and then because I’m like, Yes, I need to reshare this probably going to share it after we get done recording today. But it’s that you don’t get those first few clients through an opt in. And we’re going to touch on this in future episodes about kind of what happens when you create opt ins and what that actually does to those potential clients. And like quick little spoiler on that you might actually be teaching people how to do what you do instead of teaching them to hire you. So we’re gonna get there eventually. But like, it really can be very simple. It can be reaching out to people one on one reaching out to your network, connecting with people and honestly more important than anything else is just getting on calls with people understanding who they are, you don’t even have to do it face to face. I used to call people on the phone that first year business literally never saw one of my clients in you know, their face ever still don’t know what they look like. It doesn’t have to be it doesn’t have to be so damn complicated. And that is kind of the moral of the story here.

Karyn Paige 29:39
That’s the moral of the story. For sure. It doesn’t have to be that complicated. It can be really simple. And I love a good like cliche kind of adage. And there’s that one that’s like the simplest answers usually the best answer, you know, or usually the right answer. I think it’s in regard to like, it’s in reference to like when you’re Doing a multiple choice quiz or something like that, but the simplest answer is usually the most effective one or the most ideal choice, right. And I also want to talk about like real quick, just that it also doesn’t have to make you feel like crap. You know what I mean? There’s a lot of stuff that you can do in your business that is fun. Like what I said before, like getting on one on one calls discovery calls is so fun, because I love talking to people. I love getting to know where they’re coming from and what they need. And then figuring out like, how I can, like, help them with that, like that part’s really fun. Writing email, nurture sequences, not fun,

Sam Munoz 30:40
especially to a list of like 13 people who you know, aren’t going to hire you.

Karyn Paige 30:44
Thank you. So like, Can we check in with ourselves for a second and be like, what is it that I liked doing? Let’s do more of that. Because if I’m more interested in doing that, I’m probably gonna do it more. Right? And so simple, fun. Hey, turns out you can run your business that way.

Sam Munoz 31:02
Yes. Which is so, so cool. It’s so freeing, so freeing. So if we’re talking about empowering you guys, and like encouraging you and uplifting you, I hope that this episode really makes you feel freer. Right? Makes you feel like the chains are off. You can get up you can go and just talk to people talk about what you do, like scream it from every freaking digital rooftop. I’m not kidding. Like, pimp out that discovery, calling and make it a goal to get on more calls than you are posting on social media.

31:37
Boom. That’s it.

Sam Munoz 31:39
I say we end the episode here. Let’s keep it easy.

Karyn Paige 31:42
Yeah, let’s keep it easy. Yeah, this was fun.

31:45
We’ll see you guys next time.

31:47
All right. Ah,