SPEAKERS
Karyn Paige, Sam Munoz

Karyn Paige 00:00
Like you think about all the statistics that we hear too about, you know, women are making 70 cents on the dollar of a man, there is some internalization, that just means Oh, well, then my work just equals less, and therefore, I charge less. So it’s like, all of these kind of like external messages that we get throughout our lives that inform and influence how we are charging for the work that we’re doing. Even though there are other messages coming in that are like, well, you’re an entrepreneur, charge, whatever you want, you know, no, there’s no pay ceiling. There’s no, no, it’s like, okay, but we’ve been living with this idea of a glass ceiling our whole lives. And now you’re telling me there’s no pay ceiling like that. It’s kind of like a conflict of messaging. And so it really takes a lot to shift how you think and how you feel about the work that you do and who you are as the person who’s creating that work and come up with a number that shows what your worth is, or your value is.

Sam Munoz 01:01
Welcome to making website magic where we empower women to step boldly into their web design, businesses follow their intuition and claim the success they’re worthy of. I’m Sam Munoz.

Karyn Paige 01:12
And I’m Karyn page, where the tech wizards behind Sam Munoz consulting on the making website Magic School of Business. We’re two women here to talk about what it actually takes to run a web design business that’s aligned with your vision.

Sam Munoz 01:24
Spoiler alert, it probably isn’t what you think it is ready to hear about everything from refining your business vision, networking with intention and creating a magical client experience. Let’s do it. Karyn, hello. Welcome,

Karyn Paige 01:43
Sam. Hello, thank you.

Sam Munoz 01:48
This is the energy level we are coming in with today. Because I am always excited to get on this podcast with you and talk. But today’s topic in particular, I think is going to like the conversation we’re going to have is going to maybe blow some minds, but also give space for a little bit of reflection self reflection.

Karyn Paige 02:07
Yeah, I feel like we’re coming in hot today. I have a lot of thoughts, a lot of feelings, a lot of observations. And I’m really excited to just like, let it all out on this podcast today.

Sam Munoz 02:18
Right. And we’re gonna we like to keep the E off the podcast. So we’re gonna have to do a little bit of censoring self censoring. But here we go. So let’s talk about undercharging as a web designer, so undercharging as a web designer, why we do it, and how to overcome it. And just talking through that. So let’s let’s start with what we’re observing and why we decided to do this podcast topic today.

Karyn Paige 02:42
Okay, so I like to keep my eye on women in the web design space, like the work that we’re doing. I like to look at people’s websites, right. And so I’ve seen women, web designers who are like, so absolutely talented, right? And then I’m just like, I’m curious, like, what, what is your services page look like? Like, how much did you charge for a website that looks like that. And then I go to their their page, and I’m like, hanmi, you are straight up under charging for this, like what you delivered? If this is what it costs, there’s a huge disconnect right now, that website that you just made is worth so much more than what you charge for it.

Sam Munoz 03:24
Yes. And there’s this is no shame, right? I definitely want to preface this conversation with if you’re listening to this, and you are charging an amount that we mentioned on this episode, I don’t want you to feel like we are shaming you. In fact, what I like, and I what I hope is expressed here is encouragement and uplifting to say, Oh my gosh, like kind of open your eyes, right? Like, open your eyes to the idea that you can charge more because I get tagged and stuff or people like take screenshots for me. And they say, you know, this woman is charging 12 $100 for a six page website. She needs you guys. I just got that message from a friend recently. And it’s crazy because you see the work that’s being produced by women. And it’s amazing. And so charging, like $800 for a website is straight up under charging

Karyn Paige 04:13
is straight up under charging. There’s something about the $800 website that always sticks out for me like as the example. Yeah, like to your point, we are absolutely in no way trying to shame anybody. But like as women, we really, really need to talk about why we are under charging, like, Where is that coming from? Because we also know what’s possible in terms of charging for the work that we’re doing. It’s real, because we’ve seen it, we’ve experienced it. And so we want to share for all women, web designers that that is available to you as well.

Sam Munoz 04:51
Yes, exactly. And I keep all of my proposals, all of the things that I’ve sent out over the years and obviously there’s like the invoices and things but I’ve also looked at The original proposals that I have sent out from the very beginning of the business, and I definitely like the prices that I was charging in the beginning to the prices we’re charging. Now, it’s I mean, orders of magnitude bigger. And there’s reasons that I undercharged in the beginning. And I would think that we should talk about that on this podcast. Why do we under charge in the first place? You know, what are some of the root reasons we do that, and what that looks like to send out a proposal book, a project that not only is undercharged in and of itself, but is never going to help you reach those financial goals. Because if you are charging, let’s say, we say $800, because that’s like a nice round number we can refer to. So if you are charging $800 for a website, and you want to make $100,000. In your business, how many websites are you going to have to build to get there? I mean, let’s, I’m going to do the math over here on the side.

Karyn Paige 05:54
So while you’re doing the math over there, I’m gonna say if if you’re charging $800 for a website, and the duration of your project is like four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks? How are you paying your rent and buy your groceries and like paying your bills?

Sam Munoz 06:10
Yes, exactly. Karyn in one year, you’d have to make 125 websites. Now, man, I cannot understand how that’s possible. And so breaking down the numbers, obviously, like, a 10 $100,000 is not everyone’s goal. And we’ve talked about that, like Episode Three, we talked about your different dreams, your different financial goals and things like that. So if you’re trying to make, let’s say, $50,000, so half of that, you know, here’s the thing, like I, yeah, I have a degree in engineering, but I learned to use a calculator that was my strength is calculating via calculator, but yes, 62.5 websites. So if you charge about $100 per website, and you wanted to make $50,000, in your business, before taxes, you’d have to bust out 62 websites, which is more than one a week.

Karyn Paige 06:57
And when you think about how many people you would have to talk to in order to have the conversion rate of 62 websites in a year, that’s a lot of people. That’s a lot of proposals, that’s a lot of like, back and forth work, right? It’s not sustainable.

Sam Munoz 07:10
So strictly from a financial perspective, it does not make sense to charge so little for a website and for your work. So why do we do it in the first place? I would say one of the biggest reasons we under charge, whether it be $800, whether it be $3,000. If we’re building something super advanced, right, one of the main reasons we undercharged is that we have fear, we have fear of not having enough opportunities, we have fear that someone is going to say no, we have fear that someone’s going to say no, not because the price is too high. But because we’re not good enough for that price. There’s a lot of fear surrounding it. I think pretty much every reason that we’ve written down and we want to talk through is fear based, fear based scarcity based,

Karyn Paige 07:49
yes, scarcity, like the lack of opportunities, the lack of people who are going to say, yes, the lack of people who are going to book a call in the first place, like all of those things, the scarcity, the fear, they’re intertwined, that really, honestly is at the root of the undercharging, for sure. And think another piece of it is like a lack of confidence, you know that your work is good, and therefore it deserves. You deserve to charge more for it. Right? Like, okay, so I’m thinking of, again, like when I see somebody who has created a website, you know, on Instagram, like they’re sharing something that just launched or something, and like, This website is freaking gorgeous. It’s gorgeous. It’s functional, it’s got all the things that’s going to help that business that client, further their income goals, their revenue goals, further their mission. But where is it that like, you didn’t think that your work was good enough to charge a price point that allows you to sustain your business and live your life? Right. And I think a lot of that really comes in to as women how we feel about our own worth and how we feel about our own value.

Sam Munoz 08:58
Absolutely. We’ve talked about that before you and I off the podcast about this idea that in general, women often feel like we have to overcompensate, we have to over people people pleasing. 100%, right. I think there was like a study that I saw or something, it was like women will see a job application and have all of the qualifications or maybe be missing one. And yeah, there’ll be missing one. And they’re like, I don’t think I’m gonna apply. A man will see that, again, just statistics, a man will see that and have like six of the 10 and say, yeah, I think I’m gonna do it. I’m just gonna go for it. And there’s just a different there’s a different experience being a woman, there’s so much like, ingrained in us society totally. And, you know, from interpersonal relationships that we have more closely, that make us maybe a little more afraid to be bold and be out there and be like, hell yeah, I’m going to charge $10,000 for this website. I mean, I do like now that we are charging what I believe is very value based pricing. I get looks from people, I get interesting expressions. And the thing is, some of it comes from a place of like, dang, that’s really possible. And then others is like, are you come on? Are you serious? You’re really gonna charge 20 grand for something? And it’s like, Yeah, yes, I am. Yeah, I have to believe that some of it comes from being a woman, right?

Karyn Paige 10:19
It absolutely does come from being a woman. Because I mean, if we are just thinking about where we are in society right now, and like the the gender pay gap, right? Like, what ends up happening is whether we are aware of it or not, as women, I think we internalize that we should be charging less like you think about all the statistics that we hear too about, you know, women are making 70 cents on the dollar, or is in depending on your ethnicity or your race, you could be making like 50 cents on the dollar 60 cents on the dollar of a man, there is some internalization, that just means Oh, well, then my work just equals less, and therefore, I charge less. So it’s like, all of these kind of like external messages that we get throughout our lives that inform and influence how we are charging for the work that we’re doing, even though there are other messages coming in that are like, well, you’re an entrepreneur, charge, whatever you want, you know, no, there’s no pay ceiling. There’s no and I’m like, okay, but we’ve been living with this idea of a glass ceiling our whole lives. And now you’re telling me there’s no pay ceiling like that. It’s kind of like a conflict of messaging. And so it really takes a lot to shift how you think and how you feel about the work that you do and who you are as the person who’s creating that work and come up with a number that shows what your worth is? Or your value is or whatever? Yeah,

Sam Munoz 11:40
Yes, a lot. And we we definitely, in terms of like your worth, right. I think that that’s one of the core things about the undercharging is this idea of like charging your worth, quote, unquote, because you Oh, Karyn, you said it perfectly one time? Do you remember what you said? Yeah, I

Karyn Paige 11:56
said, charge your worth, girl, your priceless? Like? How are you going to tell you going to associate a monetary value with your personal worth when as human beings, we are priceless individuals? Right? Like, it’s, let’s throw that idea out the window. Because what ends up happening is, if you believe that you’re not worth that much, then you’re not going to charge that much. Or if you’re like queen bee over here, and you’re like, I’m priceless. I’m worth everything. I’m gonna charge, you know, $8,000 for a templatized, four page website, and someone’s like, Oh, no, no, that’s out of my budget, then all of a sudden, them turning you down for that price is also a reflection of your work. Right? So it’s like, you’re kind of like darned if you do and darn, it’s like a self fulfilling

Sam Munoz 12:43
prophecy.

Karyn Paige 12:45
Indeed, let’s reframe this idea of like the whole charge, what you’re worth concept into charge, what value you’re providing to the person and to your client and to their business. Right. So that’s a whole other thing. Totally.

Sam Munoz 13:00
I think another thing that is a reason we undercharged beyond the fear beyond the lack of confidence is that maybe you just don’t know, right? Maybe there’s a lack of awareness in terms of what is possible to charge. I know that when I started, this was really interesting. So you know, I obviously studied engineering in college. And then I also while I was there, I studied development. And then I worked as a developer in a software engineering company, because of coming from that very code based background. When I started doing web design and development, I felt that if I did not build everything from scratch, that I couldn’t charge a higher ticket price point. So because I was using Devi, which I knew the reason I was using that, and we’re gonna get into this in terms of the value you’re providing for your client. The reason I chose to use a page builder was because I knew that at the end of the day, I cared more about my client being able to use the website. But because I wasn’t quote, unquote, building it from scratch, I felt like I’ve been I can’t charge as much as everybody else. But that was a lack of awareness. That was a lack of understanding in the beginning, what the value that I was providing was, does that make sense?

Karyn Paige 14:04
It 100% makes sense. And that’s a whole other piece, too. Like to your point about, like, if it’s not built from scratch, like hand coded every single time then it’s worth less. That’s not true. That’s 100% not true. And there’s so many reasons why that’s not true. One of being what you just said about the end user result, right? But also, I think there’s this lack of awareness of really kind of like seeing behind the curtain of other people’s businesses. And sometimes you don’t need to like pull somebody aside and be like, hey, how much do you charge for that website? You know, it’s not it doesn’t have to be so clandestine. But like sometimes, you know, you look at somebody’s service page, and there isn’t a price for their packages, or there isn’t like a package is starting at like baseline price. So you literally it’s like behind a paywall, like you can’t do market research about what other people are charging. Except there are you know, we we’ve talked about this idea of like going into a Facebook group of 20,000 people While I’m responding to the thread where somebody puts out a blast that they need a web designer, and then all these comments come in, like, oh, I’ll do it for $15 an hour. Oh, I’ll do it for $800. And that it is. So that’s what you see, yeah, those are the only numbers that you see. And so then you’re comparing yourself against that, when you’re like, you’re not surrounding yourself with people, or having like biz besties, or conversations with people who might be charging more. And so you don’t see that. And because you don’t see that it’s not something that becomes your reality, or it’s not something that you think is available to you as well,

Sam Munoz 15:33
totally, like you’re not surrounding yourself with other people who are also going to charge just as much as you and as much as you want to. Yeah, related to this idea of who you’re surrounding yourself with, it also comes down to who you’re actually attracting as a potential client, right. So that’s another reason that we might be under charging is that we’re attracting people who are not going to pay that much.

Karyn Paige 15:56
This really hits home for me, because I’m very aware and observant about like the new web designer who launches their business, right. And there’s this pattern that I see a new web designers attracting new business owners, right, we think there’s there’s a lot tied in with like, what you’re comfortable with, like where you are in your own entrepreneurship journey. And so I’ve heard this story, oftentimes, where it’s like, I’m trying to attract the person who’s just like me, like a woman who’s an online business owner, entrepreneur, etc. But what ends up happening is in that decision, and in that strategy, it’s very difficult to attract a new business owner who might be confident about their own ability to find a return on investment in their own business. And so there’s this disconnect in what they value in hiring you as a web designer. Does that makes sense? Like I’m just thinking of, well, if I’m new in my web design business, and I know how much it costs to kind of get started, I should probably under charge for the websites that I provide to new business owners, because they’re not ready to make big investments, or they’re actually afraid that, you know, they’re not going to hit $100,000 in their own business this year. Therefore, they don’t see the value in investing in a four figure website or something like that quite yet. It becomes again, like the self fulfilling prophecy, there’s a way to maybe reframe it, like your work as a web designer, is good enough that you can attract somebody who is willing to pay more for your website, regardless,

Sam Munoz 17:28
yes, and it’s just because you’ve been in like, you don’t need to just be working with people who’ve been in business an equal amount of time than you are as you you have skills, those skills are needed. If you are talented in what you do, you just need to be attracting the people that see that value. And we’re going to talk about that next about value based pricing. You need to attract the people that see the value of what you’re creating, and have the mindset ability to be able to recognize the investment, see the potential outcome, and pay for that,

Karyn Paige 18:02
and not have a sticker shock, right? Like it’s if you say, if you want to work with me, my package cost this much. And then they say, well, that’s too much for me, that isn’t an invitation for you to reduce your prices. That’s an invitation for you to say, well, then we’re not a good fit. Thank you for your time. Good luck. Yeah.

Sam Munoz 18:26
About this whole like idea of attracting people that are not the right fit. I do think that a lot of this is like to no fault of the new or the maybe the first couple years as a web designer, because I think it goes back to the thing that we’re kind of always harping on in this podcast and other content is this idea that like, we might be assuming business models that don’t align with ours. And so we think we have to be teaching people things, we think we need to show up on Instagram, and like give people SEO tips. But see what that attracts are people that want to DIY their stuff, or they want to you know, do it with you or whatever, whatever it is, those kinds of relationships don’t breed higher ticket priced websites, because you’re not being hired as an expert. You’re being hired as like a work with me, kind of thing like Dude, do it yourself. Does that make sense? Right? So it’s not, like take the reins, and like, let me pay you $5,000 so that you can make something really amazing because you’re an expert. It’s hard because I think that the reason we create DIY content is because we’re like, we want to show that we’re an expert in this right. We want to show that we know what we’re talking about. And I totally hear that. And I totally understand the desire to do that. But that’s not the way like that’s not the kind of content that positions you as an expert for done for you services which are what you can charge more for.

Karyn Paige 19:41
Yes, because somebody who who wants a done for you experience and is willing to pay for a done for you experience isn’t looking for tips on Instagram about SEO or the five things that are important in a website. They’re looking for someone that’s like already knows what’s important on a website and they just want to give that person the money to do It because they’re over here doing a bunch of other money making generating activities for their own businesses, right?

Sam Munoz 20:05
It comes down to teaching about, you don’t want to teach about the thing that you’re creating, you want to teach about the value that the thing you’re creating provides. And that’s how you position yourself as an expert, and one that can charge more Yes, you have to talk about the value that paying for your service is going to provide and how good you are at what you do, you don’t need to teach them how to do what you do, because that’s going to attract the wrong people.

Karyn Paige 20:28
It’s going to attract the wrong people. But part of why value based pricing is a great way to look at things or a new way to look at things. If you’re someone who’s been undercharging, it’s about your client and the result that your client is going to get. That’s the value. That’s the value. What I was saying earlier is like someone who thinks that $800 is the right amount of money to invest in a website isn’t thinking about the result that they’re going to get in their business of what that website can do for them. But when you focus on the value in the result, it completely shifts the pricing, because it’s like your work is really like leading into a return on investment for that client business.

Sam Munoz 21:12
That’s why the pricing isn’t about the website. It’s about like, this is why we talked about something called value based pricing. And again, just to reiterate, this is not related to your worth, this is not related to your value. This is about the value of the outcome that you’re providing to your clients, and centering your clients results and successes in that conveying of what you’re creating for them.

Karyn Paige 21:35
I love that word outcome, right? Like it’s the result is the outcome that you’re providing. I

Sam Munoz 21:41
want to give like a hypothetical example. But also, this is something that we’ve seen with our own clients. So I can tell you, this is reality. What if you charge, let’s say, $2,000 for a website, and you’re like, this feels great, I’m going to charge $2,000. This client is a high powered awesome client, you created a website that is going to help them launch their new program, their new product, they launched the website, and in turn, they launched the product, and they make a million dollars from the website, right, your website facilitates that program existing it is the sales page, it may be houses the program, without the website without the thing that you created that million dollar opportunity, that million dollar revenue might not be possible. If you knew that your clients were going to get those kinds of results, would you charge more. And that’s reality. That’s reality. We have clients who we launched their websites, and they make back their return on their investment, like tenfold that is no joke with what we charge and what they make from the launch of their website and their program and their offerings. And without what we created for them, obviously, like they are great at what they do. They are talented, they have amazing offers. But our product, the thing that we created for them was an integral part of them getting to that outcome.

Karyn Paige 23:01
Yeah, so it’s very much like if you knew that the website you built was going to help somebody make a million dollars, how would that inform what you charge them?

Sam Munoz 23:09
Yes, absolutely.

Karyn Paige 23:10
I’m going to throw this out here too. Like if you’re charging something, and you’re always getting yeses, and like they’re not even batting an eyelash. He told him this is how much it’s gonna cost to work with me. And the potential client is like, sure. Oh, really? Oh, that’s the worst. Yeah. Is that? Okay, then that’s a sign that you’re under charging?

Sam Munoz 23:31
Yeah. You don’t want people to think they’re getting a steal off of your work?

Karyn Paige 23:34
No, no, no, no, no. And that’s why it’s important to disassociate this idea that it’s a value assigned to you. Because what ends up happening is it’s like you’re chasing the approval, you’re trying to please the client, make it worth their while make it easier for them to say yes, but let’s reframe it and think about the value that you’re providing to this client’s business, you’re allowing them to further their mission, you’re allowing them to basically facilitate product launches, and make their own sales without the work that you do, that would not be possible for them. And what ends up happening to is like, I can already hear it, I can already hear somebody saying, Well, if if I, they can just go find that somewhere else, they can go find that with somebody else. It’s possible, yes. But also they can find it with you. So why not you?

Sam Munoz 24:28
Why not you? I love that why not you and also believing in the abundance of this space, we have high demand skills. Every business needs a website. One person cannot make a website for every single business that exists out there. So if you truly believe that and you lean into that and you lean into the idea that if you attract the right people, the right people will say yes because of that abundance. And because we have skills that align with that there is no convincing required that someone needs a website. It is what it is. We have a skill set that is in high demand. So lean into that. And remember, why not you? Why shouldn’t you be the one that charges? $10,000? Who said you can’t?

Karyn Paige 25:07
I want to pose this question to anyone who’s listened to like, have you ever seen somebody else’s work and said, I could have built that I could have probably built that better, like that confidence that you have of what you’re capable of transfer that into what you charge for your work. If you know, you’re like, I got the skills that pay the bills, then you need to be charging enough to pay your bills. And then some How about that? Yes,

Sam Munoz 25:32
I love that. I think we have a quite a few other podcast episodes planned around pricing, but like the more of the money stuff, but I do also think we can talk about in another episode, that it’s not just the website that you’re creating for someone, obviously, we’ve talked about the result. But there’s all these other aspects that you are involved in, when you are a web developer for someone or a web designer. And you can add even more value to their project with a great client experience with all of these extra things that you provide to their specific industry. So let’s talk about that on another podcast episode. But remember, the value is not just about the product that like deliverable, it is about the result that you are providing to your client when they work with you.

Karyn Paige 26:17
So how do we get there? Sam,

Sam Munoz 26:18
I think we should start by saying we can’t we can’t tell you the number we don’t believe in like just double it, right? We don’t believe in like, whatever your rate is just times two.

Karyn Paige 26:26
Yeah, I can’t, I can’t tell you that number. Because I don’t know what you’re charging. But I can tell you this, if if you’re charging $800 for a website, I can’t tell you to double your prices, because 16 $100 is still not enough. And that’s why it’s like, it’s not that simple, where it’s like the here’s the fix double your prices, here’s the fix 30% over, that’s not fair. And it’s also not taking into consideration where you are right now, right? So I want it’s always important to like meet people where they’re

Sam Munoz 26:53
at right now. But that’s why the inner work for your business is critical. Understanding who your dream client is, like fully knowing who you want to work with, so that you can start attracting those people so that you can get practice building their websites, so that you can start creating a relevant portfolio showcasing your work. So that you can start charging more because you have like a set package for the particular type of dream client you want to work with. So that you stop attracting people that are only going to pay $800 for a website and are going to be a nightmare to work with any way, which we didn’t even touch on. But like that’s another part of undercharging that happens is like typically when you under charge, or you give a discount or you know, whatever, it doesn’t always attract the best clients to work with in terms of the experience, it’s not always fun, been there done that not a fan.

Karyn Paige 27:40
One other thing that I’ll say too, which is like super critical is get in community with other women, web designers like biz besties, people that are a little farther ahead than you who can really like pump you up, lift you up, like validate, you see the work that you’re doing and help you see the value in it, right? Because there’s so much value in having somebody that you trust, look at your work and reinforce and support you and encourage you and say this is good. charge more for it. Yeah, there’s nothing better than someone’s available to you. Mm hmm. And that whole idea we talked about earlier, like this lack of awareness and really not knowing what’s possible. It when you’re in community with women who are a little bit farther ahead than you, they show you what’s possible, because they’ve been there, right? And it’s so hard to see it for yourself if you can’t see it at all. And so that idea that you can’t be it if you can’t see it, you know, but also Okay, here’s another cliche. You know, we I love a cliche, I love an adage, that idea that like, show me your friends, and I’ll show you who you are, you know, like you never want to be the smartest person in the room kind of thing. Like when you’re in community with people like biz besties women, web designers who are a little bit farther ahead than you, it makes you stretch. It makes you grow. It helps you expand and be more open to those ideas of like abundance and things like that.

Sam Munoz 29:05
100% agree, which is why the mentorship that we have is a community and it is not just a one to one mentorship, it’s about being in community with other women. There is nothing better than someone telling you. Oh my gosh, who created this? How much did you charge you to charge? $2,000? Yeah, I would I mean, people would totally pay $3,000 for that, or $5,000 for that. And what’s great like you said is it I’ve had experiences where someone’s been like, Oh, you should charge this much. But their opinion didn’t really mean anything, because they are not in our industry. They haven’t done that and then seeing success. But I mean, having someone look at your work, who has charged $10,000 $20,000 $30,000 for projects and say, Oh my gosh, you can totally be charging four grand for that. That means something right. That’s someone that has actually been in your shoes telling you that

Karyn Paige 29:51
and absolutely means something because there’s a huge benefit to being around people who know what’s possible. they’ve experienced what’s possible and that abundance is is real for them to help you see that it’s real for you. Because if like you said earlier if your decisions are informed by people who aren’t in this industry, who don’t know what entrepreneurship is all about who might have their own scarcity mindset going on, that’s not the kind of person that you want, telling you how to run your business.

Sam Munoz 30:20
Amen. Amen. So to kind of wrap everything up, I think it was really, really important that we had this conversation today to just talk about and address the idea that undercharging is a thing in our industry, especially as women, web designers and developers, just as a reminder, this podcast is for women. So we really, really wanted to address this topic, because it is a reality that a lot of us are experiencing or have experienced in the past feeling like we have to under charge. And I hope that we taught you guys about value based pricing about valuing your work based off of the result you get for your client. So that is what we’ll leave you with for today. Lots of things to reflect on. Think about your pricing, take a look at it feel into where it is why it’s that price. This is just a thought exercise experiment.

Karyn Paige 31:09
Yep. Because you get to decide, boom, done. You’re done.

31:15
All right.